#signal

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David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) @david_chisnall@infosec.exchange · 3d ago
Today's instalment of 'people who criticise #Signal should understand why Signal made specific choices and provide better solutions to those problems': Signal uses a phone number to sign up (boo, PII!). This serves three primary purposes: The one I don't really like is that it limits account-creation rate for antispam purposes. This is largely a problem because Signal conflates identifiers (your phone number or username) with capabilities: anyone who has your identity can contact you, there's no way of saying 'this person may add me but does not have any token that allows them to pass on the ability to contact me'. And this is a thing that should be table stakes for any messenger, but isn't something I've seen done well anywhere. More importantly, it enables discovery. In a world where most people used SMS, WhatsApp grew rapidly by reusing this identifier. If you had a contact list of people you used SMS to talk to, WhatsApp would automatically create a contact list with everyone who was already in your contact list. That's how WhatsApp grew to a billion users in a few years. Apple's iMessage copied this flow. Signal added some attempt at making this privacy preserving (though the space of valid phone numbers is so small that it's not hard to exhaustively enumerate it) and ideally they'd have some protocol so that you could find people by phone number only if you, specifically, were allowed to (some kind of zero-knowledge system that checked that both of you had the other in their contacts). This isn't just a marketing things. Growing the network rapidly is important for privacy. Privacy cares a lot about the concept of an anonymity set: the set of users that might be mistaken for you. If you're using something like XMPP, with a one-user server, your anonymity set is just you: any message from your server comes from you. If you're using a server with a hundred users, it's fairly easy to correlate messages sent from a client to the server with messages sent from the server elsewhere (even if they're end-to-end encrypted) because normal humans don't send messages all of the time and so there will be moderately long periods (seconds, if not minutes) where you're the only one sending messages. If you're on a server with a million users, there will be very few times when you're the only person sending a message and so this kind of correlation is hard. But, since Snowden, we know that at least one (and I would be shocked if it is exactly one) nation state is routinely running this kind of correlation, so this is something that any private messenger needs to consider in scope. What about other identifiers? The theory with XMPP was that email providers would also offer XMPP and you'd use the same identifier for both. Yay! Except most email providers didn't (except, briefly, gmail), so now you had two different identifiers that looked the same for reaching you. And here's the sad fact: most people don't have email addresses in their systemwide address book. They have mail clients that remember people they've contacted before. Unless they give your app access to their email account (and they absolutely should not be encouraged to give messenger apps access to their email), you can't get a list of email addresses for contacts (and, if you do, it will also include a load of companies and probably spammers). So it doesn't work as a discovery mechanism. The final one is recovery. If you can't log into Signal, you can reacquire the account with a SIM and a passcode. Getting a replacement SIM is normally easy. You could do this with email but most people have free email from a single provider. A phone number is something that you pay for but the free emails come with no guarantee of service and can be cancelled at any time without giving reason. Email-based recovery is nice to have as an alternative option but for most people it's strictly worse (in fact, their email address probably has an SMS-based recovery flow!). So, if you want to criticise Signal for using phone numbers, please do! I don't like it. I think there are better solutions to these things. But don't pitch your favourite messenger as better than Signal because it doesn't need a phone number unless you come with an explanation of how you solve those problems. And if you do have a better solution to those problems, don't bother comparing to Signal, tell me about why your messenger is amazing because it has good solutions to those problems!
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Kukmetz @Kukmetz@social.vivaldi.net · 3d ago
Replying to @david_chisnall@infosec.exchange
@david_chisnall@infosec.exchange @arcanechat@fosstodon.org "...there are serious concerns that organizers should discuss and further study. These include: (1) Signal’s extensive ties to the state and major corporations, (2) Signal’s extractive and anti-democratic corporate model, and (3) Signal’s technical dependence on companies like Google, Microsoft, and Amazon, which could open it up to surveillance or censorship. https://www.counterpunch.org/2025/03/07/the-revolution-will-not-be-signaled/ "New tracking tool exploits WhatsApp/Signal delivery receipts to monitor users silently, and reveal daily routines using just phone number." https://www.cyberkendra.com/2025/12/free-tool-can-spy-whatsapp-and-signal.html #Signal collects #Metadaten the same as #WhatsApp https://primal.net/e/note154hta9dt8k4mhleu4z20rwlqd85dxap20xtvcy4fq89uzcrwshpsdelk2t Meet Paragon: An American-Funded, Super-Secretive Israeli Surveillance Startup That ‘Hacks WhatsApp And Signal’ https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2021/07/29/paragon-is-an-nso-competitor-and-an-american-funded-israeli-surveillance-startup-that-hacks-encrypted-apps-like-whatsapp-and-signal/ Secure Messenger 86 #Threema = the most secure messenger 82 #SimpleX 80 #Session 78 #Signal 64 #Wire 63 #Element X #Matrix 45 #Viber 42 #Apple #iMessage 32 #Whatsapp 31 #Google #Messages 30 #Telegram 30 #Facebook Messenger 15 #XChat Source: https://www.securemessagingapps.com and rate 🟩=3 🟨=1 🟥=0
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ArcaneChat @arcanechat@fosstodon.org · 3d ago
Switching from #WhatsApp / #Telegram to #Signal is not a solution if you really care about #privacy, #resilience and #autonomy all of them are centralized services and depend on phone numbers, which makes them easy to censor, the best services are the one that don't require any personal data at all to register, like #ArcaneChat Keep the #family safe 💜✨ #OpenSource #European #Europe #android #aws #bigtech #amazon #diday
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David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*) @david_chisnall@infosec.exchange · 3d ago
Replying to @arcanechat@fosstodon.org
@arcanechat@fosstodon.org what part is FUD??? The part where you say: Switching from #WhatsApp / #Telegram to #Signal is not a solution if you really care about #privacy, #resilience and #autonomy Your only rationale in the comic is that they are hosted on AWS. Which is a problem for a secure private messenger only for a protocol that is not designed to avoid leaking any sensitive data including the shape of the communication graph to an adversary with complete control over the server. all of them are centralized services and depend on phone numbers, which makes them easy to censor This is misleading. The phone number in Signal is not used for message routing at all. It can be used to make you discoverable to contacts that were previously using the phone / SMS to connect to you. Being discoverable by your contacts is important for a private messenger because it gets you a big anonymity set quickly. for a start, there is no single adversary that can observe the whole network, and switching from one relay to another and using several at the same time is easy, without losing your chats & data! To take the two parts of this in turn: First, I would suggest you search for the term 'global passive adversary'. It's a core part of how any private messenger expresses its threat model. And, although a perfect global passive adversary doesn't exist, ones that monitor more than an entire country do exist. The second part is the real problem. How many people are there on each relay? I don't need to monitor the entire network to see what a person is doing, I need to monitor the servers that they talk to, and who those servers talk to. That's a much weaker adversary (achievable by a huge number of potentially hostile entities). And the way that you defeat an adversary like this is to have a large anonymity set, so that correlations between messages arriving and leaving are hard. how does signal, a central observer with access to all users' IP addresses is any better? We know, from the results of warrants, precisely what can leak from Signal: the timestamp at which you joined the network and the timestamp at which the client last connected to the network. What can a warrant with your protocol deliver? But if you're leaking things to a passive adversary that require an active compromise of another system then it doesn't matter if your system might be more resilient to an active attacker: an active attacker doesn't need to bother if people use your system. Just knowing which relay they talk to is already giving more data than a warrant against Signal delivers. But it also highlights the problem with a lot of distributed messaging systems: You can easily turn a single point of failure into a lot of points of failure. If a relay is operated by someone malicious, how much of the network's traffic can they observe? But, more importantly: you did not answer my question. You just attacked Signal. There are lots of things I dislike about Signal but you aren't even giving answers that tell me that you have solved the problems that they have solved, and you've got a design that introduces a load of hard problems that they don't have. Maybe try talking about how you've actually solved some hard problems with security and privacy, rather than starting off with an attack on other projects and claiming that you're better than them?
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Signal Update Info @SignalUpdateInfo@mastodon.world · Aug 06, 2026
Boosted by Tim Chambers @tchambers@indieweb.social
🎉 There's a new beta version of Signal! Signal for iOS v8.24 Check out the Signal Community thread for more info: https://community.signalusers.org/t/beta-feedback-for-the-upcoming-ios-8-24-release #signal #signalapp #signalupdates
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Signal News & Tips @aboutsignal@mastodon.social · Aug 07, 2026
Signal Login: the optional registration without a phone number will require a one-time payment. This is intended to create an additional barrier against spam and abuse. The fees will also help support Signal’s mission 💙 Signal has not yet confirmed the price. What do you think would be a fair price? 👉 https://aboutsignal.com/news/signal-login-registration-without-a-phone-number/ #signal #signalapp #signalmessenger #aboutsignal #news #tech
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Kukmetz @Kukmetz@social.vivaldi.net · Aug 06, 2026
Replying to @Kukmetz@social.vivaldi.net
@anthrazit@mastodon.social @bingbong@norden.social Und alles, was bei den Clouddiensten über #Signal von Dir liegt, können sich US Dienste über den #CloudAct beschaffen & einsehen! "Das Gesetz verpflichtet amerikanische Internet-Firmen und IT-Dienstleister, US-Behörden auch dann Zugriff auf gespeicherte Daten zu gewährleisten, wenn die Speicherung nicht in den USA erfolgt." https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act
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Kukmetz @Kukmetz@social.vivaldi.net · Aug 06, 2026
Replying to on mastodon.social
@anthrazit@mastodon.social @bingbong@norden.social Ein Messenger der vom Russen mit einer 4-stelligen PIN gekarpert werden kann, ist per se IMMER unsicher! Alleine dass #Russland bzw. #Putin unsere #Bundesregierung und über 300 Personen im #Bundestag über #Signal ausspioniert hat, ist ein Grund die #SignalApp zu löschen. Mit #Threema wäre das nicht passiert = Mitdenken rentiert sich immer! Alle Messenger mit Mobilnummer bekommen laufend solche Phishing- & Betrugsversuche. Wenn Deine Mobilnr. einmal missbraucht wurde, werden sie es immer wieder tun. Für alle die sich immer noch #Signal schönreden, zeigt #Threema wie #Phishing dort unmöglich ist: Keine Mobilnummer = 100% Anonym = kein #Putin Vertrauensstufen Support = 🟢🟢🟢 Unbekannte blockieren & selber hosten = Alles deutlich sicherer! three.ma/politiciansde #Diday #UnPlugBigTech #FckAfD
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Kukmetz @Kukmetz@social.vivaldi.net · Aug 05, 2026
Replying to @anthrazit@mastodon.social
@anthrazit@mastodon.social @bingbong@norden.social Spektrum der Wissenschaft: Wie vertrauenswürdig ist der Messenger Signal? Die "Tech-Community und der digitalen Zivilgesellschaft kritisieren die App jedoch wegen überraschender Datenflüsse, organisatorischer Intransparenz und undemokratischer Machtverhältnisse." https://www.spektrum.de/news/mythos-signal-licht-und-schatten-beim-nicht-kommerziellen-messenger/2190072 Die großen Sicherheitsunterschiede zwischen #Signal (USA) und #ThreemaApp (Schweiz) Signal vs. Threema: Sicherheit, Recht, Vertrauen https://www.secunis.de/signal-vs-threema-infrastruktur-recht-vertrauen-2/ Die "Partner" von #Palantir #Amazon #AWS https://www.palantir.com/partnerships/aws/ #Google https://www.palantir.com/partnerships/google-cloud/ #Microsoft https://www.palantir.com/partnerships/microsoft/ Signal unterstützt Überwachung + Elon #Musk spendete 2 Mio. https://www.counterpunch.org/2025/03/07/the-revolution-will-not-be-signaled/ Jeder kann Dich weltweit auf Signal ausspionieren = die Soft ist freiverfügbar https://www.cyberkendra.com/2025/12/free-tool-can-spy-whatsapp-and-signal.html Signal sammelt #Metadaten genau wie #WhatsApp https://primal.net/e/note154hta9dt8k4mhleu4z20rwlqd85dxap20xtvcy4fq89uzcrwshpsdelk2t Mike #Kuketz gesteht, dass er von Signal bezahlt wird: https://web.archive.org/web/20241128120108/https://social.tchncs.de/@kuketzblog Meet Paragon: An American-Funded, Super-Secretive Israeli Surveillance Startup That ‘Hacks WhatsApp And Signal’ https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2021/07/29/paragon-is-an-nso-competitor-and-an-american-funded-israeli-surveillance-startup-that-hacks-encrypted-apps-like-whatsapp-and-signal/ "#signal leaked my phone number, despite being set to hidden." https://veganism.social/@pelle/116883056065591942 ALLE scheinbar "kostenlosen" Messenger spionieren ihren User aus. Kapiert es oder sterbt dämlich....
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Kukmetz @Kukmetz@social.vivaldi.net · Aug 05, 2026
Palantir arbeitet mit Google Amazon und Microsoft zusammen. Deshalb sollte man die grundsätzlich meiden. Und über diese US IT Riesen läuft auch der Traffic des #Signal Messengers - damit werden dann die Metadaten eingesammelt. Wer #UnPlugBigTech & #Diday ernst meint, sollte also besser die #SignalApp löschen und aufs wirklich sichere und US-Freie #Threema umsteigen! #Google & #Palantir https://www.palantir.com/partnerships/google-cloud/ "Hier geht es darum, das Beste aus der KI – für das Google zweifellos steht – zu bündeln und unseren Kunden zu ermöglichen, ihre Daten in Entscheidungen umzuwandeln und diese Entscheidungen wiederum in einen nachhaltigen Wettbewerbsvorteil." #Microsoft & #Palantir https://www.palantir.com/partnerships/microsoft/ "Unternehmen weltweit können ihre Daten besser nutzen, indem sie die Palantir-Plattform für datengesteuerte Abläufe und Entscheidungsfindung einsetzen, die auf den Cloud-basierten Analyselösungen und umfassenden KI-Diensten von Azure basiert." #Amazon #AWS Zusammenarbeit mit #Palantir https://www.palantir.com/partnerships/aws/ "Wir freuen uns sehr über die Zusammenarbeit mit Palantir, um diese Tool-Suite auf AWS verfügbar zu machen und unseren Kunden dabei zu helfen, schneller Erkenntnisse zu gewinnen und das Potenzial ihrer vorhandenen Daten voll auszuschöpfen." Siehe auch https://telepolis.de/-11188931
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Kukmetz @Kukmetz@social.vivaldi.net · Aug 05, 2026
Replying to @anthrazit@mastodon.social
@anthrazit@mastodon.social @bingbong@norden.social IP Adresse langt und die 4 US IT Giganten können zahlreiche weitere Infos mit Dir verknüpfen! Siehe Grafik. Und ansonsten ist diese Seite sehr aufschlussreich, was die großen Sicherheitsunterschiede zwischen #Signal und #Threema sind. Spoiler: Threema ist deutlich durchdachter und sicherer! https://www.secunis.de/signal-vs-threema-infrastruktur-recht-vertrauen-2/
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Kukmetz @Kukmetz@social.vivaldi.net · Aug 06, 2026
Replying to @anthrazit@mastodon.social
@anthrazit@mastodon.social @bingbong@norden.social Deine #Signal Chat IP geht über 4 US IT Giganten die mit Palantir zusammen arbeiten. Und das ergibt für dieses faschistische Land sehr wertvolle #Metadaten über Dich. Threema Chat lauf über deren Stand-Alone Server, der nichts mit den USA zu tun hat. Ist eigentlich nicht so schwer zu begreifen! Ein VPN ist zwecklos, dann haben und speichern sie die VPN - IP ! Noch mal kurz zur Erinnerung: "Metadaten verraten Ihnen absolut alles über das Leben einer Person. Wenn Sie genug Metadaten haben, brauchen Sie den Inhalt nicht wirklich." NSA General Counsel Stewart Baker Siehe: "We kill people based on metadata" https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2014/05/10/we-kill-people-based-metadata/ Hinter dem Matrix-Protokoll steckt der erste MetaDaten-Konzern der Welt und freut sich über die wertvollen Infos die Du ihm kostenlos lieferst! 5 fundierte Gründe, warum man einen groflen Bogen um #Matrix bzw. #Element machen muss: https://www.heise.de/forum/heise-online/Kommentare/Open-Source-Adventskalender-Der-Element-Messenger-und-das-Matrix-Protokoll/VORSICHT-Matrix-bzw-Element-sammeln-MetaDaten-Haende-weg-davon-Loesung-inside/posting-40160593/show/ https://telegra.ph/why-not-matrix-08-07
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Kukmetz @Kukmetz@social.vivaldi.net · Aug 04, 2026
Replying to @voorstad@mastodon.nl
@voorstad@mastodon.nl #Threema uses OpenStreetMap for years. All traffic of the #Signal goes over the Clouds of Amazon, Google, Microsoft & Cloudflare - they only talk about "third partys"! Especially in combination with US (Spy) #CloudAct https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act And even more worse: #Google #Amazon & #Microsoft work together with #Palantir Google "This is about bringing together the best of AI, which Google clearly represents, and enabling our customers to turn their data into decisions, and those decisions into sustainable, competitive advantage." https://www.palantir.com/partnerships/google-cloud/ Amazon #AWS "We're excited to be working with Palantir to make this suite of tools available on AWS and help our customers get to insights faster, unlocking the data they already have. Using AWS, Palantir's ERP suite can help customers offload the complexity, gain faster intelligence from their data, and make critical decisions to save time and expense." https://www.palantir.com/partnerships/aws/ Microsoft #Azure "Organizations around the world will be able to make their data more actionable by using Palantir's platform for data-driven operations and decision making, powered by Azure's cloud-scale analytics and comprehensive AI services." https://www.palantir.com/partnerships/microsoft/ Get it or die stupid = there are no "free" Messenger in this world!
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Kukmetz @Kukmetz@social.vivaldi.net · Aug 04, 2026
Replying to @Kukmetz@social.vivaldi.net
@voorstad@mastodon.nl Maybe you remember the #Amazon Blackout in October 2025? #Signal wasn´t working for hours - at the same time! And everybody can check this for himself: Make a Traceroute on "contentproxy.signal.org" and you can see that your signal traffic goes over the clouds of #Google Only #Threema offers real #privacy by design ! Signal collects your metadata the same way that Whatsapp does. Here is explained how.... https://primal.net/e/note14hf9d3fkkhrsygkyzz8snuwyukckd4yqx0cq62z35cwp53a20a8suw457j #Diday
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kazé @fabi1cazenave@mastodon.social · Aug 03, 2026
Replying to @fabi1cazenave@mastodon.social
Mes communications, tant perso que pro, se font essentiellement par écrit, depuis mon laptop : courriel, Zulip, Mastodon… et même #Signal, qu’on peut utiliser sans smartphone, facilement, grâce au travail de @almet@tutut.delire.party : https://github.com/almet/signal-without-smartphone Il y a donc des moments dans la journée où je ne peux ni envoyer des messages, ni en recevoir. Et c’est très bien. Refuser l’injonction à l’immédiateté, ça me semble être un bon pré-requis pour une santé mentale pas complètement claquée au sol. 2/4
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Eelco Mulder :mastodon: 🇪🇺 @voorstad@mastodon.nl · Aug 02, 2026
Replying to @OchRonToch@mastodon.nl
@OchRonToch@mastodon.nl @signalapp@mastodon.world @AboutSignalNL@mastodon.social I have a google-free phone (/e/os) without Google Maps. And still, why would #signal promote a bigtech platform, while they *could* should promote open standards? Using a specific option of another vendor is in my world promoting it. An open standard would open Google Maps on your phone, on my phone it would open Comaps. Both the maps option of our choice. That's the option Signal should promote or use. #useopenstandards
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surely bazkie 👩🏼‍💻 @bazkie@beige.party · Aug 02, 2026
ah great, it happened, desktop signal "unlinked" from the device I originally made my account with (which no longer exists), and now I can't do shit anymore 🤷‍♀️ great system. so I guess now I need to find some smartphone, put my GSM SIM in there, create a new account, and then lose it again in a few months time when signal, for no apparent reason at all, needs to get "pinged" again by that device who the fuck comes up with these systems. don't they understand the concept of having an account linked to some email address!? #signal
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heinelo @heinelo@pixelfed.social · Aug 02, 2026
#DailyDesktop Meinen Desktop unter Fedora 44 Gnome 50.3 die Nutzung von Linux und Open Source Software mit entsprechenden Messengern und Mail Anwendungen und ohne Google / Microsoft / Apple und mit KI dann wenn ich sie haben möchte ist und bleibt einfach eine bessere und auch Nachhaltigerer und vor allem Selbst bestimmender Umgang mit Informationstechnologie. Bild Bearbeitung ist mit den zur Verfügung stehen Tools unter Linux gar kein Problem funzt viel schneller als unter Windows #darktable #gimp #shotwell #DailyDesktop #ShareYourDesktop #UnixPorn #mywork #duisburg #fedora44 #gnulinux #Linux #mydesktop #opensource #fedora #libreoffice #fairphone4 #murenacloud #evolution #digitaleselbstbestimmung #onlyoffice #digitaleselbstverteidigung #digitalenachhaltigkeit #signal #telegram #element #linphone #Verschlüsselung #openpgp #rkhunter #lynis #firewall
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Bill Bernard @berniework@infosec.exchange · Jul 30, 2026
One of the most satisfying things for me is seeing a couple of names pop up every few days as new #Signal users in my Signal app. Progress, little by little.
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