Post #2351033
2024-12-04 02:01 UTC
Replies (25)
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@joelle@social.joelle.us 2024-12-04 02:02
Also almost all the trans men I know report that they became *LESS* aggressive on T. And frankly I think we should listen to them when they talk about the experience of being men.
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@Twotired@universeodon.com 2024-12-04 03:42
@joelle@social.joelle.us What if, and I know this is going to sound crazy, unearned privilege makes people act like jerks?
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@cavyherd@wandering.shop 2024-12-04 04:00
@joelle@social.joelle.us One of Robert Sapolsky's lectures covered this. Turns out what T makes you is...more of what you aready are. (Kinda like alcohol, it seems.)
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@Ezzy@hellspawn.gay 2024-12-04 04:38
@joelle@social.joelle.us true! testosterone doesn't make me agressive, losing to prismatic hunters in destiny 2 makes me agressive
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@sterlingmanor@kitsunes.club 2024-12-04 04:40
@joelle@social.joelle.us We're AFAB and naturally have high enough T levels that we might as well be on HRT due to being intersex. Visible facial hair growth and everything. Honestly it makes us more stable overall because we haven't had a period since early 2023 and those used to destabilize us so much - posted by Piper
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@SearingTruth@infosec.exchange 2024-12-04 05:49
@joelle@social.joelle.us Men and women can't help it. One more than another. ST "I just want humanity to realize how good it is. And save itself." SearingTruth
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@FinalOverdrive@kolektiva.social 2024-12-04 06:04
@joelle@social.joelle.us It also implicitly opens the door for the same to be visited upon cis women with higher than average testosterone. Most cis women have somewhere between 30-40 ng/dL of testosterone. But on the high end it can go all the way up to 80 ng/dL. And even without PCOS, some naturally produce levels as high as 180 ng/dL. These are your "high T women". Does testosterone make you horny and a little more impulsive/risktaking? Without question. It definitely impacts how swiftly one moves from interest to attraction to desire. It definitely shapes how sex is experienced, how sexual fantasies work, how often you want and how much you want it. But wanting something is one thing, and doing something is quite another thing. And while aggression does depend on impulsivity...the latter does not necessarily mean the former.
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@anthropy@mastodon.derg.nz 2024-12-04 06:06
@joelle@social.joelle.us person: *has PTSD, bad friends, a hostile job, a bad day, has a fight with someone rude that actually started it* society: TESTOSTERONE DID THIS
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@TheWolfOfSouthEnd@mastodonapp.uk 2024-12-04 08:33
@joelle@social.joelle.us I would be looking at whether they were privileged, spoiled, or disciplined as a child.
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@eatingice@ice.sophari.org 2024-12-04 09:35
@joelle@social.joelle.us wasn't there a study, suggesting, that testesterone induces behaviour that gives you the most prestige in a given situation
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@jana@social.jsteuernagel.de 2024-12-04 09:43
@joelle@social.joelle.us When I started HRT with a GNRH blocker, the doc warned me that I'd have a spike in T for a few days, which would make me more aggressive. He literally said to me: "It will suck, better lock yourself in". This definitely scared me. But it was fine, I felt literally no difference. Maybe if in those days there would have been something to get angry about, I would have felt it a little more, sure, but it's not automatic. How to deal with anger can be learnt, the same way as any other emotion
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@Bel_tamtu@meemu.org 2024-12-04 10:11
@joelle@social.joelle.us THIS. It's also a damaging belief to expose to trans people, birth those who want to go on E, and those will want to go on T. (It is also bad for those who don't want HRT at all). And it's bad for intersex people, in a similar way. -A trans person on T who finds it easier to cry and that sie is more kind since starting HRT.
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@relentless_eduardo@freeatlantis.com 2024-12-04 10:20
@joelle@social.joelle.us also legitimizes involuntary medical intervention
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@taylan@fedi.feministwiki.org 2024-12-04 10:30
@joelle@social.joelle.us I totally agree! I've always been an extremely gentle person (perhaps even more so than some women I've encountered in my life) and I don't think I've ever had a T deficiency judging by my physical development and facial hair and whatnot. I think it's down to a combination of individual genetics and socialization, but I think socialization is ultimately the key. There's just one caveat I'd add, which is that there seems to be some evidence that unnaturally high T seems to make bodybuilders extremely anxious, irritable, prone to having violent fantasies, and so on. This is something Dr. Mike Isratel has talked about recently in some interviews. (He's a professional bodybuilder, and realistic about the negative side-effects of this line of work.) This still doesn't invariable make them *actually* violent, though. (I don't think Dr. Isratel ever actually did anything, for example.) Ultimately, I think it's about whether someone has been taught to control themselves or not. If not, then they really don't need much T in their bloodstream to do horrible things. And if they have been taught to control themselves, then they won't become an actually dangerous individual even if they go as far as abusing anabolic steroids.
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@quantumsys@tech.lgbt 2024-12-04 10:59
@joelle@social.joelle.us Testosterone does make it easier to be angry but also easier to be compassionate, right? If I remember correctly, it makes animals and humans more likely to treat those they see below themselves (in terms of social hierarchy or even value as a being) worse, while making them more likely to treat those they look up to well. Correct me if that's inaccurate :) -Luci
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@dragonarchitect@rubber.social 2024-12-04 12:27
@joelle@social.joelle.us IIRC testosterone is more often associated in medical & psychology research with risk-taking behavior than anti-social behavior. That doesn't necessarily mean that people with high-T are antisocial, just that they are more likely to engage in risky activities. Like all of the crazy mad science that styropyro gets up to, while also being the wholesome bean that he is.
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@felixtheanimator@kolektiva.social 2024-12-04 15:03
@joelle@social.joelle.us What *does* trigger aggressive behavior (or at least correlates to it) is Prolactin. I've struggled with it my whole life.
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@dragonfrog@mastodon.sdf.org 2024-12-04 15:54
@joelle@social.joelle.us I remember reading about one of those standard prisoners-dilemma-esque selfishness/generosity studies psychologists love to do, where the variable was administration of testosterone. When not told what was being administered, men given T were slightly more generous / less aggressive, women showed no strong effect. But when told they were receiving T, regardless of whether they got T or placebo, women were significantly more selfish.
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@Li@tech.lgbt 2024-12-04 17:58
@joelle@social.joelle.us yes, honestly claiming it’s T is just bioessentialism with more steps .. it’s just “boys will be boys” with a coat of pseudoscience
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@TheGreatLlama@kolektiva.social 2024-12-04 18:23
@joelle@social.joelle.us I'm willing to accept that it may not be testosterone, but as a CIS man hitting middle age, there was something at play in my younger years that I don't think can be explained simply in "behavioral" terms. Occasionally, situations would arise that would trigger an ugly level of rage (that I generally managed to control WITH behavioral choices - i.e. "I need to go for a walk right **now**"). It became more of a factor in my teenage years and as I age, it's less of a factor. It certainly felt irrational and possibly hormonal - it felt almost external when it would happen. Difficult to explain and I'm probably not articulating it well. I'm also not trying to use this as an excuse for most of the typical toxic masculinity bullshit. Just sharing some anecdotal thoughts from the point of view of someone who has lived through much of the hormonal arc of a fairly typical CIS male. I hope it's taken in the spirit in which it's offered.
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@munin@infosec.exchange 2024-12-04 21:00
@joelle@social.joelle.us @ShaulaEvans@zirk.us It's pretty remarkable how much my transmasc partner has calmed down on T-based HRT - they were worried before going on it that they would see more difficulty with anger, because of those cultural memes, but it had quite the opposite effect. Testosterone's not a poison that causes aggression in men. Men's decisions on how to act on their anger causes aggression in men - and the same goes for everyone else.
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@PetrichorSquirrel@meow.social 2024-12-04 21:25
@joelle@social.joelle.us saying men are bad because of T lets them off the hook
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@batichi@masto.batichi.net 2024-12-04 21:27
@joelle@social.joelle.us as a person with PCOS my testosterone is naturally much higher and I have yet to beat someone to a pulp But I might just not be trying hard enough
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@boulesdefourrure@piaille.fr 2024-12-04 21:49
@joelle@social.joelle.us and this is why you don't neuter dogs to make them less agressive. It simply doesn't work. And yet it's asked every week...
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@tbortels@infosec.exchange 2024-12-05 01:08
@joelle@social.joelle.us As a man who has taken testosterone meds (my pituitary pooped out in my thirties) - I beg to differ, having had first-hand experience. I found it amped up my anger - little things would annoy me, things that shouldn't. It was like an imp sitting on your shoulder going pick pick pick, never stopping. I found myself getting irritable and angry far more frequently than was warranted. I eventually stopped because I didn't like the behavioral changes it was starting to cause, and the symptoms faded. Other people's experiences may vary, and testosterone-induced rage is NOT an excuse for bad behavior. But to deny the link exists is dangerous and factually incorrect in some cases.