@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Apr 28, 2025

@dieTasse@floss.social Yeah, no. Archival is valuable and useful, especially when I need to go back and retrieve that for a future conversation.

If you feel like you want the conversations to be more ephemeral, that's fine. But I find value in being able to reference things in the future.

1

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Apr 28, 2025

Replying to @brian@pepple.us

@brian@pepple.us That is probably what I'd do. Ten years of being an infrastructure engineer has given me rather little appetite for running stuff myself beyond just futzing around.

2

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Apr 28, 2025

Replying to @Bene@fosstodon.org

@Bene@fosstodon.org @kev@fosstodon.org @mike@fosstodon.org There was a blowup about one of the moderators last week, the moderator quit, but I think that was the last straw for them.

1

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Apr 28, 2025

Replying to @sirobsidian@fosstodon.org

@sirobsidian@fosstodon.org Same. And I like fosstodon quite a lot too.

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Apr 28, 2025

Replying to @sirobsidian@fosstodon.org

@sirobsidian@fosstodon.org Yup. See @kev@fosstodon.org's post: https://fosstodon.org/@kev/114415390874451358 I assume if nobody steps up to replace him and @mike@fosstodon.org, that is what will happen.

1

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Apr 28, 2025

The worst part about people basically driving @kev@fosstodon.org and @mike@fosstodon.org to consider shutting down fosstodon is that since Mastodon's account migration facilities are garbage, I will actually *lose* my historical presence on the fediverse if they shut down.

The fediverse seems to be a meaner place than what it replaced. And that's a shame.

fosstodon.org

Kev Quirk (@kev@fosstodon.org) - Fosstodon

21

14

11

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Nov 23, 2024

Replying to @luis_in_brief@social.coop

@luis_in_brief@social.coop @glyph@mastodon.social As one of those maintainers who could use the funding to be able to focus on projects, this whole thing was a giant slap in the face. I've been doing this for goodness knows how long. I *know* what I need to do. The problem is I can't afford to allocate time for it.

9

0

2

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Aug 31, 2024

Replying to @elsandosgrande@pleroma.envs.net

@alyssa@oc.todon.fr @danielleigh@mastodon.social @delroth@mastodon.delroth.net @p4@masto.ai @lina@vt.social imho... Rust > C++ > C sincerely, a programmer who doesn't like rust

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Aug 31, 2024

Replying to @elsandosgrande@pleroma.envs.net

@Lyude@queer.party @mairacanal@fosstodon.org @lina@vt.social @desttinghim@gamedev.lgbt Frankly, I'm a bit insulted that the assumption was that I don't know anything about the Linux kernel community. I've been a known quantity in that area for almost a decade, and I've been heavily engaged in several areas over the last couple of years thanks to the Asahi Linux project. What's frustrating is that this is a problem even when I engage with kernel developers who *already know* I have some know-how, but don't care and ignore my feedback anyway.

0

1

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Aug 30, 2024

Replying to @mairacanal@fosstodon.org

@mairacanal@fosstodon.org @Lyude@queer.party @lina@vt.social @desttinghim@gamedev.lgbt I spend a lot of time interacting with kernel developers, so I *do* know. Mostly I'm in storage stuff, but I do pop up in other places too. I even have started going to Linux kernel conferences and engaging there. I was at the event that video referenced in the email that started this whole thing.

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Aug 30, 2024

Replying to @robinm@fosstodon.org

@robinm@fosstodon.org @pinskia@hachyderm.io @scherzog@mastodon.gamedev.place @crazyeddie@mastodon.social @lina@vt.social Sometimes the divergence is meaningful between RFC and implementation. And even with a single compiler implementation, squeezing everything out the language matters. Because if you don't know what is safe to squeeze, the assumption can be violated in an upcoming revision without any real warning. It's the equivalent of dealing with nightly/unstable rust features. I'm also for having multiple compiler implementations, which is way harder with no spec.

2

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Aug 30, 2024

Replying to @mairacanal@fosstodon.org

@mairacanal@fosstodon.org @Lyude@queer.party @lina@vt.social @desttinghim@gamedev.lgbt Maybe if there was some kind of even semi-formal decision-making and community engagement process for the kernel. Some kernel developers sometimes don't even like talking to each other, much less the people that try to use and contribute to it. Most kernel subsystems fail the test for a structured subcommunity, so no I don't think they qualify.

0

3

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Aug 30, 2024

Replying to @robinm@fosstodon.org

@robinm@fosstodon.org @pinskia@hachyderm.io @scherzog@mastodon.gamedev.place @crazyeddie@mastodon.social @lina@vt.social At least for me, it's rare that I go back to the spec documentation, but when I have to, it's mostly to understand the intent of things and what the constraints they designed it for. But I know people that use that same information to come up with "tricks" to squeeze out everything from the language without breaking things. (I'm also glad I don't live in that world where I need to think of that! 😂)

1

2

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Aug 30, 2024

Replying to @robinm@fosstodon.org

@robinm@fosstodon.org @pinskia@hachyderm.io @scherzog@mastodon.gamedev.place @crazyeddie@mastodon.social @lina@vt.social Well, a spec *is* documentation. But I imagine that's not what you meant, and you refer to usage documentation (e.g. documenting how to consume it rather than what it is). But you need both for a good picture of the language you are using. Rust has great usage documentation but crap documentation about Rust *itself*. And that can be a problem when you hit weird edges that you need clarity to resolve.

0

9

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Aug 30, 2024

Replying to @robinm@fosstodon.org

@robinm@fosstodon.org @pinskia@hachyderm.io @scherzog@mastodon.gamedev.place @crazyeddie@mastodon.social @lina@vt.social For a programming language, a specification is actually really important. It resolves ambiguities and also defines where ambiguities are. People argue about undefined behavior problems because we *know* where those are. And that's incredibly valuable.

3

1

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Aug 30, 2024

Replying to @Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org

@mosu@fosstodon.org @fl0_id@mastodon.social @matzipan@hachyderm.io @lina@vt.social @bitzero@fosstodon.org But again, put aside both C++ and Rust, the underlying problem is that Linux has no real leadership to make any modernization effort effective. Kernel developers just *do not* work with each other as a matter of principle, and code work that crosses "subsystems" is incredibly painful to get done. Lina and I both know this because this is a big part of the struggle with Asahi Linux upstream work.

5

1

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Aug 30, 2024

Replying to @Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org

@mosu@fosstodon.org @fl0_id@mastodon.social @matzipan@hachyderm.io @lina@vt.social @bitzero@fosstodon.org I can say with enough confidence that kernel developers get plenty confused with the kernel's custom and internal type system. It is inconsistently applied and is hard to understand because it has to be implemented in a super baroque way due to how absolutely basic C is as a language. Richer types and better support for lifetime management built-in is a component of almost every other language and the kernel would benefit from it.

6

2

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Aug 30, 2024

Replying to @mosu@fosstodon.org

@mosu@fosstodon.org @fl0_id@mastodon.social @matzipan@hachyderm.io @lina@vt.social @bitzero@fosstodon.org I think you missed the point. The point is to make the Linux kernel code easier and better for people to understand and maintain. The kernel's C-ish code isn't going anywhere. You aren't going to win anyone over with the attitude of "it's all gotta be Rust". C++ is a significant improvement for development over C simply because C is *too barebones*. Moving to C++ can make that part of the codebase better, which *can* make things easier for Rust bindings.

0

4

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Aug 29, 2024

Replying to @fl0_id@mastodon.social

@fl0_id@mastodon.social @matzipan@hachyderm.io @lina@vt.social @bitzero@fosstodon.org Not really. Because C<->C++ bindings are nowhere near as much work as C<->Rust bindings. And conversion doesn't result in completely different code like C->Rust does. It is something that some kernel developers have entertained already. When I was at LSF, it was a hallway track topic. More folks were comfortable with C++ than Rust.

2

11

2

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Aug 29, 2024

Replying to @fl0_id@mastodon.social

@fl0_id@mastodon.social @matzipan@hachyderm.io @lina@vt.social @bitzero@fosstodon.org If you're starting from C++17, I think it's a fairly reasonable language. There's a lot of "fake C++ in C" code in the Linux kernel that can be taken out and replaced with actually reasonable code. Even Linux's C and Rust are highly opinionated, so I don't see a reason why opinionated C++ couldn't work.

5

13

2

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Aug 29, 2024

Replying to @mairacanal@fosstodon.org

@mairacanal@fosstodon.org @Lyude@queer.party @lina@vt.social @desttinghim@gamedev.lgbt Leadership comes in many forms, it doesn't imply a BDFL. Though note that Linux *does* have one in the form of Linus Torvalds. He just doesn't use that power much. But okay, leadership in a comparably sized project? Kubernetes qualifies. It might be overkill for many infrastructure architectures, but it definitely has *thousands* of contributors, an organized leadership for every part through SIGs with good feedback and decisionmaking processes. It can work.

2

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Aug 29, 2024

Replying to @bitzero@corteximplant.net

@bitzero@fosstodon.org @matzipan@hachyderm.io @lina@vt.social I'm not a fan of Rust either, but it does have good ideas and I'm happy to see other languages (even C++) starting to get in on those. I'm of the personal opinion that the kernel should move from C to C++ *and* allow Rust for people who want it. I also think the rule of "need users before setting up infrastructure" for supporting a new language is painful. Rust and C++ would be a tremendous uplift and I think it would simplify a lot of the weirdness in the kernel.

4

16

2

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Aug 29, 2024

@Lyude@queer.party @lina@vt.social @desttinghim@gamedev.lgbt If we take Rust out of the equation and look at any other large scale modernization effort, we see pretty much the same problems. I like to pick on folios because I'm mostly a storage guy, but that transition has been long and painful because there's fundamentally no real leadership in Linux. A lot of storage developers just cannot handle working in an organized fashion. DRM is the most organized subsystem and even it suffers through these kinds of problems.

8

0

3

0

Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ)

@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org · Mar 14, 2024

For all those attending #SCaLE21x, I've got some great news! Not only am I attending the conference as well (find me at the @fedora@fosstodon.org and @kde@floss.social booths!), but I'm also giving a couple of talks!

- Bringing #Fedora Linux to Apple Silicon Macs with @AsahiLinux@social.treehouse.systems (3/16 - 15:45 PDT)
- Popping kernels for Linux distributions (3/17 - 11:45 PDT)