@protonprivacy@mastodon.social
2024-07-08 12:31 UTC
Replies (38)
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@hipsterelectron@circumstances.run 2024-07-08 12:32
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social this was a miss king but i still love you
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@radicalrobit@laserdisc.party 2024-07-08 12:38
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social "productivity benefits" lmfao
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@geojulien@mapstodon.space 2024-07-08 12:41
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social on my side, I can't see the image below "Model openess" section: https://pme.protonblog.tech/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/model-openness-2-1024x490.png
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@foolishowl@social.coop 2024-07-08 12:57
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social It's not a productivity tool, it's a material and cultural disaster. It's not inevitable. Just don't build it. I've gone to a lot of effort to move my email from Google to Proton, because I'm trying to resist this push for LLMs everywhere. If Proton deploys an LLM, I'll cancel my account.
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@strongthany@infosec.exchange 2024-07-08 13:16
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social AI is not inevitable, no one is requiring you to implement it. But if you are going to add it, environmental sustainability is equal in importance to data privacy.
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@tsrono@mastodon.social 2024-07-08 13:17
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social AI tools in every piece of software is not inevitable, it’s a choice. y’all should seriously reconsider the choice you’re making to pursue it.
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@karadoc@aus.social 2024-07-08 13:17
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social I wouldn't expect any AI-focused company to move to homomorphic computing. They can profit from personal data - and so they're unlikely to spend extra resources to prevent themselves collecting it. And from the users' side, if told "it's encrypted"; it's still difficult to know who can and cannot decrypt it anyway. The whole thing is complex and opaque. So I'd say that local computation is the only near-term solution for that kind of privacy. And for the *other* privacy problem, we seem to have no solution at all. i.e. The problem of personal data being used for training regardless of the source or the person's wishes. Leading to things like this: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/07/ai-trains-on-kids-photos-even-when-parents-use-strict-privacy-settings/
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@enthusiast101@fosstodon.org 2024-07-08 13:19
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social I honestly think AI models should only be run locally. Many smaller models like the 7b variants can be run on cpu with 8gb of ram. These models may hallucinate information more often, but they are more than good enough for a lot of "productivity" tasks like writing emails, summarizing pages, etc With ollama and the page assist browser extension, I would argue many devices used today can run decent LLMs locally (especially given CPUs tend to be overspecced for how they are used).
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@Orca@nya.one 2024-07-08 13:29
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social No. The very concept of AI is built on mass data harvesting, no way an AI can be "privacy", it's soaked in the data big tech companies leeched from Interner users.
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@jamespthomas@mastodon.social 2024-07-08 13:52
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social i must produce for myself before i produce for the greater ai,for that,i require privacy
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@MonKaiju@todon.nl 2024-07-08 13:58
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social Oh wow,.the 'inevitability' falsehood coming from y'all is really disappointing... I guess its an opportunity to switch to a provider with less bloat though, I just want email from my email provider, literally nothing else
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@rothko@beige.party 2024-07-08 14:01
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social just no. don't go there. you risk losing all your credibility by making that move. people who are seriously interested in maintaining their privacy are generally people who are uninterested in AI, not happy to see so much investment in the concept, and/or downright hostile towards it. proton is honestly the LAST place i would have expected to get involved in the AI disaster -- i don't care how brilliant your "local AI" might be (honestly i don't understand it entirely and not interested in the technical detail), it's still just jumping on the bandwagon that has so far proven itself to be headed downhill to disaster.
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@lycanmatriarch@tech.lgbt 2024-07-08 14:13
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social don't you dare add AI to Proton products. There's no credible reason, we don't want it, and I will drop my Proton Unlimited plan so fast.
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@Chromino@mstdn.social 2024-07-08 14:18
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social The detriments FAR outway any benefits it may have AI is NOT inevitable. Stop perpetuating something so dumb and dangerous. There's no ethically trained AI because none of them would work. That has bred irriversable widespread distrust for AI and rightfully so. Its destroying the creative industry, education, livelihoods, climate, the list goes on AI is anti-freedom and anti-privacy, both of which you say is needed for a better internet. Dont betray your users by implementing AI
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@hexaheximal@mastodon.social 2024-07-08 14:59
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social Please don't go down that route. The only thing which is "inevitable" is the Proton team once again focusing on building something new which nobody actually wants. Proton should focus on doing what they do best - email. I know someone who has used ProtonMail longer than I have, with a premium subscription, and *still* hasn't ever used the other Proton services. Adding LLMs into it is going to hurt more than it will help.
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@Traumkaempfer@sueden.social 2024-07-08 14:59
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social I was thinking of switching my accounts to Proton but I guess I can just start looking elsewhere already.
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@cthos@mastodon.cthos.dev 2024-07-08 15:28
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social hold up. You cite the 2024 survey as your customer base wanting LLMs but you asked “do you want proofreading, spelling, and grammar tools” and “do you use an LLM once a month”. Neither of those questions equate to “please shove an LLM into proton services.” I will cancel immediately if you introduce an LLM (or diffusion model) to your products.
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@chiraag@mastodon.online 2024-07-08 15:30
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social Please don't do this. If nothing else, it's clear a good chunk of that 28% may choose to leave if you dip into the GenAI space, and it's not worth it. Everyone talks about productivity gains, but I'm really not sure what those are when you have to double-check everything for falsehoods anyway. It's like having a secretary who doesn't know when they make stuff up - it's worse than useless...it ends up creating more work in the end.
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@ennenine@mastodon.social 2024-07-08 15:43
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social I choose Proton because I want to get AWAY from these things. I don't agree with Proton prioritizing this hype bubble, but you know your business. However, if you don't allow me to opt out, I will opt out of Proton entirely.
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@ChaosPossumWitch@girlcock.club 2024-07-08 15:50
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social please no. I'm so sick of AI.
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@Coleyra@framapiaf.org 2024-07-08 15:56
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social We don't need AI, thanks.
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@standingpad@infosec.space 2024-07-08 16:17
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social if this means Proton will gain AI features at some point, then I have something to say. If they're forced on us, I'm out.
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@Haste@mastodon.social 2024-07-08 17:07
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social thank god I use Fastmail
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@fixionauta@mastodon.art 2024-07-08 17:27
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social I don't know why but I had this crazy idea that Proton was leading by scientifics and therefore had a better knowledge about Climate Change, so I'm not sure why Proton want to contribute to dig everyone's grave with more AI; quite certain an environment harmful practice is not "inevitable".
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@xgranade@wandering.shop 2024-07-08 17:31
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social Please, please don't do this. I love the email and SimpleLogin alias setup I have with you folks and would hate to lose that if you guys went in on the whole AI hype.
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@Qxkw@ieji.de 2024-07-08 17:41
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social Whats your opinion about more privacy focused frontends like AI Chat from DuckDuckGo?
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@quantumcog@fosstodon.org 2024-07-08 17:44
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social No AI, Please
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@BrahmaBelarusian@todon.eu 2024-07-08 17:52
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social In preparation for you pushing this through over objections by your customers like me, I'll be looking to transfer my service to another provider, as the use of generative #AI is completely unacceptable to me.
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@tsrono@mastodon.social 2024-07-08 18:08
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social maybe try this post again but just stop after the first sentence?
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@daniel@social.dhelonious.de 2024-07-08 18:11
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social Thanks for this interesting article. I agree that this is inevitable, and people would have to be very naive to think otherwise. Online services are easy to use and are already used by a large part of the world's population. This makes it even more important that we think about how to make the use of AI safe, ethical, private, and environmentally friendly. Otherwise, future AI will continue to be none of these things. Whether we like it or not, AI is here to stay.
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@spyke@mastodon.online 2024-07-08 19:15
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social So, is matrix multiplication generally horrible for privacy? Or you are just trying to hype?
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@arutaz@sinnesro.se 2024-07-08 19:53
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social
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@quasigod@infosec.space 2024-07-08 22:56
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social the comments here are absurd. LLMs have many issues that should be talked about, but they definitely have benefits in certain workflows. I'm confident if Proton implements it into their services, they'll do it in a way that does not force it on to the user
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@danhulton@hachyderm.io 2024-07-08 23:55
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social FFS. I was planning on upgrading to Unlimited and moving my mail over too, but you all have me considering moving away, instead. For the love of all that's good, read the responses here, recognize how many people are planning to drop you like you're hot if you go this way, and reconsider. Your core audience and your planned new target market do not match, and your planned new target market is fickle AF.
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@kdwarn@fosstodon.org 2024-07-09 00:04
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social include me in the many that will stop paying for proton if this is introduced.
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@devwatcher@social.tchncs.de 2024-07-09 04:40
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social Thanks for this overview Proton. One question. Do you think there are AI features that are more part of an OS then any application and the other way around? I think of Apples new spell checking, which is everywhere in the OS. On the other hand a search like feature within Mail or Drive makes sense to me.
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@aphowell@wandering.shop 2024-07-09 05:05
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social I'm deeply disappointed that you're repeating the talking points of the latest tech grift. I can't help but think it bodes ill for future Proton product development (to say nothing of the ethical and environmental concerns).
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@Hayleethegamer@kind.social 2024-07-09 05:53
@protonprivacy@mastodon.social I have to say, I believe LLM is both ineffective and a violation of trust. Every model I'm aware of uses stolen data, and aren't even that good. Plus AI is driving further disasters in many areas, including plagiarism and climate. If Proton were to implement AI I and many others would end up changing email providers. In addition, my belief is LLM AI is fundamentally incompatible with Proton's privacy. Due to inquiries not being private and very easily leakable.