Post #2032829
2025-12-19 20:26 UTC
Replies (27)
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@benjamineskola@hachyderm.io 2025-12-19 20:32
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone this matches my experience. The thing that particularly made me realise the speed up was illusory was realising I didn’t actually understand the code it had generated. At least, not to the same level I would have done if I’d written it myself: I could see what it did but I don’t think I could have written the same code myself in future. (Maybe that’s fine if you anticipate using the LLM in future too? 🤷)
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@ottobackwards@hachyderm.io 2025-12-20 04:23
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone @benjamineskola@hachyderm.io I was thinking this today, thank you for posting
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@glyph@mastodon.social 2025-12-20 05:17
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone fuck yeah
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@eevee@slime.global 2025-12-20 06:05
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone thank you. the attitude of like "thank god we don't have to write code any more" is so baffling. why are you doing this in the first place then??
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@zotnobot@mastodon.social 2025-12-20 06:57
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone I hold the same belief that writing code is fun (including unit tests :-). But I've been repeatedly surprised by colleagues who didn't, at a rather deep level, that I came to accept it's not fun *for everyone*. (And those folks tend to move to managerial positions, "coding" being deemed junior-level work. They'll be in a position to influence the use of AI.)
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@nfagerlund@mastodon.social 2025-12-20 07:31
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone dead-on; AI assistants steal the fun portion of the job and leave you holding the bag for all the hard and tedious parts.
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@MuhammadFreeSoftware@fosstodon.org 2025-12-20 09:55
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone I started coding because it was fun, too. I then started using ai, it made stuff boring, then returned to doing stuff myself
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@thinkb4coding@mastodon.social 2025-12-20 10:12
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone boiler plate is usually a symptom of badly designed languages/frameworks/libraries. Creating tools to write boilerplate faster is a stupid goal. We should work on reducing the need for boilerplate by improving languages/frameworks/libraries...
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@tim@union.place 2025-12-20 11:07
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone @otfrom@functional.cafe I look at this from a different angle. AI helps me solve bigger or different problems that I couldn't have solved on my own, or solve them more efficiently - it's not doing the fun parts, it's doing the boring drudgery parts. That said I respect everyone's choices and preferences in this space!
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@tipap@sueden.social 2025-12-20 11:17
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone The same is true for translating, which is a craft that has already been taken over by AI. The real joy comes from decoding the meaning in the source language and then finding an equivalent that uses an appropriate register, style and tone to encode it in the target language. Unfortunately, the only jobs left nowadays are proofreading of AI output, and your are not allowed to change translations if you feel you could do it better. Only remove hallucinations and correct mistakes.
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@jnpn@mastodon.social 2025-12-20 11:38
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone will we really be able to do this in 2 years ? business pressure, market competition .. this may naturally diffuse (psi) llm just about everywhere. and so much management only care about getting more customers, regardless how the product is made...
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@cford@toot.thoughtworks.com 2025-12-20 12:14
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone Nice piece. My experience is different - for me using Claude Code has made coding fun again. I got to the stage in my career where I was overwhelmed by the accidental complexity of programming. Claude's raised the proportion of my time engaged in what I regard as the essential complexity of problems I'm trying to solve.
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@707Kat@mastodon.art 2025-12-20 16:15
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone Tell ‘em David!
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@matthew@mastodon.me.uk 2025-12-20 21:51
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone My colleagues say that AI helps with boring boilerplate… but I’d rather they used their meaty brains to remove the need for boilerplate, not instruct their clunkers to automate it. Great blogpost. 100% agree.
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@lettosprey@tech.lgbt 2025-12-20 22:29
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone Not only is thinking through hard problems, and getting more and more the understanding on how to write elegant solutions fun, it is also the essential part of learning how to write quality code. This is how "senior software developers" become "senior software developers", and I dread to think how the future will if developers do not go through this learning process...
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@nyanpasu64@donotsta.re 2025-12-20 22:58
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone I'm a believer in handwritten code and the models we build of them, and think LLM generated text is an erosion of both skills and mental models of a project... but sometimes I feel my limiting factor is frustration and burnout rather than technical skill... and even though AI coding will produce worse results with more energy, I still wonder if it could help me be less overwhelmed debugging a massive unfamiliar codebase (I run into bugs often and try to solve them myself, because I've seen that the majority of my bug reports never get fixed). (I suppose if the LLM results are useless enough I spend as much emotional capacity trying to make sense of the results, it's a pure negative because it still causes environmental harm and feeds predatory companies. Another argument is that you "should" instead set the code aside and find some way to self-care, though it seems a bit dogmatic about the "right" way to do things vs. what helps. And it's frustrating to put down code when there's nothing else that feels worth doing...)
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@echoingfrog@writing.exchange 2025-12-21 05:46
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone I don't work in tech (though I thoroughly enjoy learning how to code and coding, badly, my own website) but I feel this can apply to any field, and specifically art. Why in hell would you "subcontract" the creative part of your work to an AI? If you consider yourself an artist, then the creative part is what you live for. And if not, then you're not an artist, period.
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@TheServitor@sigmoid.social 2025-12-21 07:26
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone These articles miss the point I think. You see it as something lost. These poor people missing out on the fun of a complex and intellectually satisfying profession. But... most of these millions people who have now experienced "vibe-coding" aren't *trying* to be software professionals and don't miss the satisfaction. They are just suddenly able to do things they couldn't. They're proud of running their first scripts! That's really fun. #coding #AI
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@nuculabs@mastodon.social 2025-12-21 11:45
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone I fully agree with you. I mostly used AI tools to ask questions and to search the web because the current state of search engines is lacking or it get slow to find something meaningful
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@yanndegat@piaille.fr 2025-12-21 13:26
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone i dont agree at all: i had a lot of fun doing advent of code. but i dont feel any fun in: doing modern UIs whether they are mobile, flutter, typescript, react, vite whatever; maintaining tens if not hunderds of templated yaml files to instruct k8s how to deploy my app instructing CICD how to behave with dumb shell scripts in yaml files. mapping cli args to fn handlers mapping fn handlers to parametized sql requests. writing mock scenarios for my tests with mocked data.. and so on..
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@sevodric@mstdn.fr 2025-12-21 14:12
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone I completely agree and I would add (as others pointed out) that I lack the feeling of ownership on AI generated code. "No I can't commit this" I say to myself. However I'm concerned about the future of what I consider a craft... Our capitalist world is very happy as long it sells, even if it's of a lower quality. My colleagues *seems* to understand how to use AI tooling to be more productive whereas I feel lost, depressed, and ultimately unfit for the company.
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@stealthmusic@mastodon.online 2025-12-23 09:08
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone Great read! That’s an angle of view on the whole AI topic that was missing, for me personally as I just love writing code since I was a kid. The terrible thing is, what you explain in your article is pretty much what the evil tech bros (like Palantir) call a „forward deployed engineer“ which they hope will replace teams of devs and POs. The good thing is, as you pointed out as well, the objectively measurable gains (according to studies) in a single digit percentage, if at all.
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@n1k0@mamot.fr 2025-12-24 12:17
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone “developers” ordering LLMs to write code for them should have been managers in the first place, change my mind
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@yvg@indieweb.social 2025-12-24 12:31
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone Tbh i understand the reluctance, but this also makes me wonfer if you ever copy-pasted code from SO or elsewhere, ever used a template, ever used code generators,...?
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@marzlberger@neander.social 2025-12-25 19:32
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone Writing good code is art
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@tanega@oisaur.com 2025-12-26 08:00
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone while Claude code can occasionally kick me out the ADHD paralysis when I have to write things like tests. I have the exact same experience. That black hole of boredom when prompting and waiting for the word salad generator to hopefully spit some decent code. I appreciate that you mentioned 'the ruling class'. I wish I had some time to write a blog post that would cover that LLM will probably not replace your job but seek to proletarize workers like us.
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@brokenintuition@indieweb.social 2025-12-27 01:02
@davidcelis@xoxo.zone well said. I have a lot of thoughts about LLMs, from the theft of training data to environmental impact to utter lack of humanity in the output “art”, but for me the bottom line is simple: I refuse to participate in the deskilling of my own profession