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ell1e

@ell1e@leminal.space
lemmy 0.19.17

I code and do art things. Check @ell1e@private.horse64.org for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

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Joined July 16, 2025

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ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space · 1d ago
So do you want to legally review every line by an LLM to see if it meets the fair use criterion, since you have to assume it was probably stolen? And would you do this for a known plagiarizing human contributor too...?
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ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space · 1d ago

I agree. However, I think the natural conclusion is an LLM ban. See also here.

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ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space · 1d ago
If you had a contributor that plagiarized at a 2-10%, would you really go "eh it has to have a degree of novelty to be a problem" rather than just ban them? The different standards baffle me sometimes. You can find various rates mentioned here: https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3543507.3583199 and here: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/2026/01/ai-memorization-research/685552/
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ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space · 5d ago
Which I'm guessing they cannot attest, if LLMs truly have the 2-10% plagiarism rate that multiple studies seem to claim. It's an absurd rule, if you ask me. (Not that I would know, I'm not a lawyer.)
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@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space · 6d ago
Would you also say that to this lawyer reviewing Co-Pilot in 2026? https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/38072#issuecomment-4105681567 Disclaimer: this isn't legal advice.
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ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space · 6d ago
If the accountability cannot be practically fulfilled, the reasonable policy becomes a ban. What good is it to say "oh yeah you can submit LLM code, if you agree to be sued for it later instead of us"? I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice, but sometimes I feel like that's what the Linux Foundation policy says.
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ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space · 6d ago

If you would have written it yourself the same way, why not write it yourself? (And there was autocomplete before the age of LLMs, anyway.)

The big problems start with situations where it doesn’t match what you would have written, but rather what somebody else has written, character by character.

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ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space · 6d ago
It's less extremist if you look at how easily these LLMs will just plagiarize 1:1, apparently: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/38072#issuecomment-4105681567 Some see "AI slop" as "identified by the immediate problems of it that I can identify right away". Many others see "AI slop" as bringing many more problems beyond the immediate ones. Then seeing LLM output as anything but slop becomes difficult.
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ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space · 6d ago
Whatever it is, it doesn't mean LLMs are a sane or "inevitable" answer.
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ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space · 6d ago

Ultimately, the policy legally anchors every single line of AI-generated code

How would that even be possible? Given the state of things:

https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3543507.3583199

Our results suggest that […] three types of plagiarism widely exist in LMs beyond memorization, […] Given that a majority of LMs’ training data is scraped from the Web without informing content owners, their reiteration of words, phrases, and even core ideas from training sets into generated texts has ethical implications. Their patterns are likely to exacerbate as both the size of LMs and their training data increase, […] Plagiarized content can also contain individuals’ personal and sensitive information.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/2026/01/ai-memorization-research/685552/

Four popular large language models—OpenAI’s GPT, Anthropic’s Claude, Google’s Gemini, and xAI’s Grok—have stored large portions of some of the books they’ve been trained on, and can reproduce long excerpts from those books. […] This phenomenon has been called “memorization,” and AI companies have long denied that it happens on a large scale. […]The Stanford study proves that there are such copies in AI models, and it is just the latest of several studies to do so.

https://www.twobirds.com/en/insights/2025/landmark-ruling-of-the-munich-regional-court-(gema-v-openai)-on-copyright-and-ai-training

The court confirmed that training large language models will generally fall within the scope of application of the text and data mining barriers, […] the court found that the reproduction of the disputed song lyrics in the models does not constitute text and data mining, as text and data mining aims at the evaluation of information such as abstract syntactic regulations, common terms and semantic relationships, whereas the memorisation of the song lyrics at issue exceeds such an evaluation and is therefore not mere text and data mining

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2949719123000213#b7

In this work we explored the relationship between discourse quality and memorization for LLMs. We found that the models that consistently output the highest-quality text are also the ones that have the highest memorization rate.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2601.02671

recent work shows that substantial amounts of copyrighted text can be extracted from open-weight models. However, it remains an open question if similar extraction is feasible for production LLMs, given the safety measures […]. We investigate this question […] our work highlights that, even with model- and system-level safeguards, extraction of (in-copyright) training data remains a risk for production LLMs.

How does merely tagging the apparently stolen content make it less problematic, given I’m guessing it still won’t have any attribution of the actual source (which for all we know, might often even be GPL incompatible)?

But I’m not a lawyer, so I guess what do I know. But even from a non-legal angle, what is this road the Linux Foundation seems to embrace of just ignoring the license of projects? Why even have the kernel be GPL then, rather than CC0?

I don’t get it. And the article calling this “pragmatism” seems absurd to me.

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ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space · Mar 28, 2026
I appreciate the clarification! However, 1. the original comment seemed to be talking about a simple uncustomized frame not looking correct, which sounds like the GNOME problem. And 2. the article still seems to imply Wayland means no SSD, as far as I can tell, which to my knowledge as a general statement isn't true. Therefore, I apologize for misreading the main intention of the article, but I think there are multiple reasons why people might misread it. Perhaps some clarifications could help?
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ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space · Mar 28, 2026
Basically, on any sane window manager no matter if Wayland or X11, you'll get the same frame for all apps for free. From all the big desktops it's only GNOME that somehow decided server-side decorations weren't a good idea implement, and now all Wayland apps have to hand-roll a hacky workaround. The "flat frameless window" look was Electron's GNOME workaround. What the article is describing is a more elaborate GNOME workaround. On e.g. KDE, none of these problems existed in the first place.
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@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space · Mar 28, 2026
This is a GNOME problem, not a Wayland problem. The article says "On X11, the window manager typically supplies a window’s title bar and frame decorations. But [...] on Wayland, all you get back from the compositor is a plain rectangle." which makes it sound like this is a Wayland problem, but this isn't true.
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ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space · Mar 28, 2026
Electron's Wayland implementation continues to be buggy: https://github.com/electron/electron/issues/48859 So if I'm thinking of a framework that won't cause trouble with Wayland, it's not Electron.
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ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space in privacy · Mar 15, 2026
Point taken, but it still seems to include e.g. all URLs which could leak all your search queries and other rather invasive conclusions. If anything, this seems to confirm Mozilla does sell data it shouldn’t.
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ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space in privacy · Mar 14, 2026
LibreWolf, since it doesn’t ask for a license of all of my data and then has a clause to sell all my data, like Firefox seems to have. (Ask your own lawyer though, this isn’t legal advice.)
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ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space in linux · Mar 04, 2026
The EU wallet seems to just expect the user to have an Android phone with Google Play services that passes Google Hardware Attestation or an iOS phone, or you’re not a citizen: leminal.space/post/31858818/21120139
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ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space in privacy · Mar 03, 2026
I don’t think you’re making a coherent point, but I’m not interested in continuing.
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ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space in privacy · Mar 02, 2026
I provide whatever I think is useful for the discussion.
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ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space in privacy · Mar 01, 2026
I heard Codeberg already struggles with spammers, so I get that. But letting big surveillence data companies like the credit card companies solve this, seems like one of the worst ideas. I’ve seen e.g. discourse use a gradual trust system, there likely are other ways.
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ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
ell1e
ell1e
@ell1e@leminal.space

I code and do art things. Check private.horse64.org/u/ell1e for the person behind this content. For my projects, codeberg.org/ell1e has many of them.

leminal.space
@ell1e@leminal.space in privacy · Mar 01, 2026
I wasn’t arguing against Passkeys, just pointing out how they are often perceived.
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