@skribe @DGI i also see this as a very edgy argumentation. Ask a 7y old, if people, that did sth "very very bad" would deserve a guillotine for example... Bet there's also a big number - but is it correct!?

@vnikolov@ieji.de @DGI@graeber.social Socialism is a classless society where the means of production are collectively owned, usually (supposedly representatively) through a state organ. And where necessities are decommodified Communism is a stateless classless moneyless society where the means of production are collectively owned and the necessities of life are decommodified. You are ignoring that in both ideologies it is a foundational belief that profit is theft, here profit is a non-standard definition meaning the excess value created by a wage labourer that is taken by the employer because they lay claim to the tools used to create that value (i) is mostly correct although there would always be some kind of social mechanism disintivising spoilng or hoarding collectively owned goods as this is just survival (ii) is a category error, there are no crimes in a communist society because there is no body that can make something legal or illegal, there are just social consequences to antisocial or abusive behaviour. People can still be tasked with figuring out who did harmful things but they would act justified by support of their community to which they are dependant, not in a rigid application of policy (iii) is also a category error, it depends what you mean by country, if you mean that there will be no military force that lays exclusive claim over a territory then yes that won't exist, but there will still be differing cultures and regional interests and these could conceivably clash and lead to conflict. When communists talk about there being no need for war we're talking about wars that are driven by the need of the powerful to maintain and expand their power, if they don't do this they die. Thus war is inherent to the existence of the state.