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@alisonkiddle@mathstodon.xyz

2025-12-16 17:13 UTC

Recently I had occasion to pose a question "which is more likely, flipping 10 heads in a row with a normal coin or getting four sixes in a row with a normal six sided die/dice". I asked a couple of people to work it out in their heads and was interested that there are a few different approaches. How would you decide which is more likely? What calculations would you do? What do you already know without needing to calculate that you can use to help?

Replies (17)

  • @christianp@mathstodon.xyz 2025-12-16 17:20

    @alisonkiddle@mathstodon.xyz my first guess was to notice that 1/36 is a little bit less than 3/100, so (1/6)⁴ is a bit less than 9/10000. (1/2)^10 = 10/10240, and I can't decide if that's more or less. Then I realised that 10 flips vs 4 rolls has the same relationship as 5 flips vs 2 rolls, and 1/32 > 1/36.

    Open ##2874827

  • @Taneb@hacksrus.xyz 2025-12-16 17:33

    @alisonkiddle@mathstodon.xyz my solution: I note that those are one in 2^10 and one in 6^4 respectively, so it's whether 2^10 is greater or less than 6^4. While I do know 2^10 from memory, I don't know 6^4 and I've got a little bit of a cold and would rather not work it out. But I can divide both by 2^4, to get 2^6 and 3^4, and I know those! Is 64 greater than or less than 81? It's less than! So 2^10 is less than 6^4 and 1/2^10 is greater than 1/6^4. So flipping 10 heads in a row is more likely. Which wasn't what I expected!

    Open ##2874833

  • @alisonkiddle@mathstodon.xyz - The chances are 1/2¹⁰ and 1/6⁴, respectively. I know 2¹⁰ = 1024, but what's 6⁴? I have a vague memory that it's 1296, but let me think. It's 36 squared. I guess just multiply it out in my mind. 6 times 6 is 36, 6 times 30 is 180, 30 times 30 is 900, 900 + 180 + 180 + 36 = 1080 + 180 + 36 = 1260 + 36 = 1296. Okay, good. So it's more likely to roll 10 heads than to roll four 6's. I'm worrying about 6³ and worked out that it's 216. Sounds very familiar. I used to know these numbers better! I like powers of numbers and feel happy knowing a bunch of them. They have a nice feeling to them.

    Open ##2874835

  • @alisonkiddle@mathstodon.xyz First is 1/2¹⁰. I know the value of 2^{10} like the back of my hand, but since I don't know the value of 6^4 and don't want to calculate it that's not very helpful to me atm. But I *do* know the value of 6^2=36. And 36 is just a little more than 32=2^5 (again, another fact I know without having to think about it). So (6^2)^2 > (2^5)^2 = 2^{10}, so when we take reciprocals we get that 1/6^4 < 1/2^{10}.

    Open ##2874838

  • @pozorvlak@mathstodon.xyz 2025-12-16 20:23

    @alisonkiddle@mathstodon.xyz It's 1/2^10 versus 1/6^4; I know 2^10 = 1024 because it's the number of bytes in a kilobyte. 6^4 I don't know, but it's 36^2 - nope, that sounds hard. I've got 216 in my head - no, that's 180 + 36, so it's 6^3. But then 6^4 is 6*216, which is at least 1200, so 1/6^4 < 1/2^10 and we're done without having to do the full calculation.

    Open ##2874842

  • @rojun@mastodon.social 2025-12-16 20:25

    @alisonkiddle@mathstodon.xyz Probabilities are: (½)¹⁰ vs (⅙)⁴ For concise notation, I'll invert them: 2¹⁰ vs 6⁴ We can decompose the right side: (2 * 3)⁴ = 2⁴ * 3⁴ We have 2s exp. so again can reduce both sides: 2⁶ vs 3⁴ Again decomposing: 2³ * 2³ = 8 * 8 vs 9 * 9 We see that the right side is bigger, so when we invert them, the left side is bigger i.e. 10 coin tosses for same side has higher probability: (½)¹⁰ > (⅙)⁴

    Open ##2874844

  • @zenben@c.im 2025-12-16 20:33

    @alisonkiddle@mathstodon.xyz this was fun! I did it Baez' way. Fascinating to see the range of workings for such a small problem!

    Open ##2874846

  • @mra@mathstodon.xyz 2025-12-16 20:55

    @alisonkiddle@mathstodon.xyz the probability of the coins is, as others have noted, just 1/2¹⁰, and the probability of the dice is 1/6⁴. now, i want to know which of 2¹⁰ and 6⁴ is larger. first, note that 6⁴ = 2⁴3⁴, so i just need to know which of 2⁶ and 3⁴ is larger. then, i observed that since √2 ≈ 1.4, this means that 2√2 < 3, but (2√2)⁴ = 2⁶, ergo 2⁶ < 3⁴, and the coin flips are likelier! this seems to be a more circuitous route than some other people have taken, but it was fun to do it in a way that doesn't require any mental multiplication or knowing a bunch of powers off the top of your head, especially since i have a terrible memory for that sort of thing

    Open ##2874847

  • @gbargoud@masto.nyc 2025-12-16 20:57

    @alisonkiddle@mathstodon.xyz I would break it in half since I know 6^2 is 36 and 2^5 is 32 and that means that the dice rolls are less likely I could then get the actual probabilities by squaring and inverting the numbers but this is good enough for comparison.

    Open ##2874848

  • @rachelplusplus@tech.lgbt 2025-12-16 20:59

    @alisonkiddle@mathstodon.xyz Took a different angle to many of the other answers I see - definitely influenced by having worked in data compression! Started thinking about how much entropy the two options are "worth" - more formally, what is -log2(probability) ? A heads on a regular coin flip is "worth" 1 bit of entropy, so ten heads is worth 10 bits. Meanwhile, four sixes on four dice is "worth" 4 * log2(6) bits. But how do we compare those? Well, I know that sqrt(2) is 1.4[something], and in particular is less than 1.5. So 22.5 = 4 * sqrt(2) 10. Converting back to normal people terms, four sixes being "worth" more entropy means that the outcome is less likely. So 10 heads is slightly more likely than 4 sixes.

    Open ##2874849

  • @skua@mastodon.social 2025-12-16 21:05

    @alisonkiddle@mathstodon.xyz Two to the 10th power as the denominator. vs Six to the 4th power as the denominator. With same numerator, larger denominator is less likely. Blind to what I know already.

    Open ##2874850

  • @alisonkiddle@mathstodon.xyz I'm in CompSci, so I already knew 2^10 = 1,024. I don't know my powers of six, but I do know 2*3 = 6, so I could break that down into 2^4 * 3^4. 2^4 = 16, and some squaring got me 3^4 = 9^2 = 81. So now it was down to calculating 16*81. I struggled with breaking up 16 or 81, and eventually settled on calculating 10*81 + 6*81. The first half is 810, the second half... 480 + something? 486. At that point, I realized 480 + 810 > 1,024, so there were more potential outcomes for rolling a dice four times. Thus the odds of getting one specific outcome was less, so flipping ten heads is more likely.

    Open ##2874851

  • @lahosken@hachyderm.io 2025-12-16 21:58

    @alisonkiddle@mathstodon.xyz 10 heads, 1 in 1024: instantaneous. I, a stereotypical computer nerd have that one ingrained in the brain four sixes, 36 * 36. I'm pretty sure that's over a thousand, we're done. Oh wait, I, a stereotypical computer nerd, have gotten sloppy in distinguishing between 1000 and 1024. Now I am confident about nothing uh, okay, let's buckle down. 3*36 is uh 108 so yeah 36*36 > 1024. Whew! OK, we're done for reals this time a few seconds pass o hey, of _course_ 32^2 < 36^2. Why did I do that arithmetic in my head, ugh

    Open ##2874853

  • @isaackuo@spacey.space 2025-12-16 22:03

    @alisonkiddle@mathstodon.xyz My head knows 2^10 is 1024, but my head does NOT feel like doing 36*36. So, I took the square root of both sides, so I only needed to calculate 32 vs 6*6. (My brain knows powers of 2 for ... reasons.)

    Open ##2874854

  • @alisonkiddle@mathstodon.xyz I compared 1/(2^10) with 1/(6^4). I know 2^10 by heart. 6^4 = 36^2, which I also know by heart. I subsequently realised that 2^10 = (2^5)^2 = 32^2, so I could have compared 32^2 with 36^2 without having to evaluate the latter.

    Open ##2874855

  • @alisonkiddle@mathstodon.xyz By head, in about a minute: 2^10=1024 (knew already) 6^4 = 36*36 which is...err.. 30*30+6*6+2*30*6 so 936+2*180 and it's already clear that it's more than 1024 so coin flip is more likely.

    Open ##2874856

  • @anshthewad@mathstodon.xyz 2025-12-17 13:32

    @alisonkiddle@mathstodon.xyz The first has 1 in 2^10 chance of happening, and the second has 1 in 6^4 chance of happening. I want to compare them, so I can square root both sides, now I'm comparing 2^5 and 6^2. But I already know that 2^5 = 32 < 6^2 = 36, which means that the first is more likely.

    Open ##2874857