Post #744611
2022-11-10 13:10 UTC
Replies (40)
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@Popcorn@mastodonapp.uk 2022-11-10 19:15
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie Thats the beauty of Open source though. Its everyone's train set. You set it up and invite anyone you wish to play with it. The downside is as you explained. But Then the instances can Move again, and so forth. I note today that Rasberry Pi joined the party and have set up server farms. One thing you could try and lock in is to say that each Instance must have 0 power consumption. Completely green. https://betanews.com/2022/11/09/raspberry-pi-mastodon-server/
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@paddez@mastodon.social 2022-11-10 19:52
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie I feel like the AGPL License protects Mastodon itself from a lot of this.
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@ernie@writing.exchange 2022-11-10 19:56
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie Holy crap, this is exactly what Substack is doing to the newsletter community right now
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@rhyn@mastodon.online 2022-11-10 20:04
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie so true where's there's alot of people there's always someone trying to make a buck from it or trying to prevent it
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@coogie@mastodon.ie 2022-11-10 20:37
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie classic Google, and we see this approach in the Web in general with Chrome - get involved, contribute to the community, then when you dominate usage shovel out a million non-standard features and APIs at a blistering rate so that others can't keep up and look lacking in comparison. I can only think that a lot of instances will immediately defederate on day 0, but what about communties that are less technical, or don't care as much?
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@alex@tech.lgbt 2022-11-10 20:38
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie I’d give fairly good odds on most current Mastodon instances quickly defederating with a hypothetical ActivityPub’d gmail.com. The only way to prevent embrace/extend/extinguish is to reject the ‘embrace’ part.
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@grob@mstdn.social 2022-11-10 20:41
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie Thanks for the good examples, I read this before but didn't really understand.
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@TheBigDemoDip@mstdn.social 2022-11-10 21:02
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie User recently arrived from twitter/$8chan here. The biggest benefit to me of mastodon is that it is not owned by one entity. I agree that it is essential it is not controlled or dominated by a central entity and that interoperability between servers is maintained and defended. And that there will be a need to defend with continued growth. Perhaps there is a helpful legal path along the lines of GNU licenses.
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@ks_mikey@gruene.social 2022-11-10 21:12
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie interesting piece - but unless people get their heads round the idea this is not a Twitter substitute but an alternative social media platform, then things are going to start getting chaotic
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@skymtf@tech.lgbt 2022-11-10 21:23
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie my honest take on it is maybe 5 or 6 years ago this could of happpened but I think now we are pretty safe. The biggest reason I say this is while they could add centeralized features like verifications, a discover algorithm and more. I overall think most Mastodon client have a solid user experience, and on top of that I feel like there isn’t a ton of features they could add
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@vegafjord@fribygda.no 2022-11-10 22:10
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie Definitely a concern, we need to prepare to fight for our independence from tech empires.
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@Cjayfla@mastodon.ie 2022-11-10 22:14
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie this is excellent. We have to remember that the kinds of people who back Trump, Qatar 2022, the American Health Insurance lobby are the kinds of people who will stop at nothing to “portect their investments”. If they can break this, they will. *My* take, though, is that they will try to legislate this kind of collective out of existence.
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@kevinswiber@hachyderm.io 2022-11-11 00:53
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie @mcollina@fosstodon.org Essentially, Google already did this with XMPP. Really, XMPP should have been what launched fediverse. Client-server protocol. Server-to-server protocol. Active standards management. Healthy open source ecosystem. The difference now is the size of the community who cares about this. We were few. ActivityPub has many.
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@joepie91@social.pixie.town 2022-11-11 03:18
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie By and large, this is only a risk from the "everybody should use Mastodon" perspective, though. From the "fostering a safe community" perspective, the problem is very quickly solved with a defed.
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@bok_bok_ba_gok@mas.to 2022-11-11 03:37
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie As a newcomer who appreciates FOSS unsurveilled spaces, it's great to see you knowledgeable folks generating possible scenarios & protection strategies.
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@RainofTerra@terra.incognita.net 2022-11-11 07:48
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie *cries in 2000s*
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@rjamestaylor@sfba.social 2022-11-11 08:16
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie The @gmail suggestion will probably happen. It may start @hey.com, though. :grief:
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@Chris_Swan@mstdn.social 2022-11-11 08:16
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie I understand where this is coming from but the takeover scenario is mighty difficult with a truly federated network. I think it is important that each server is a separate community of users linked to other communities. I'm not sure big business will see this as their native home and they will stay on Meta ( they are certainly fleeing the other site). I'm hopeful and optimistic. I hope I'm right.
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@khaledblah@mastodon.online 2022-11-11 08:19
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie Has this already occurred and I've just forgotten about it? I mean it does seem plausible but I can't remember a particular case. 🤔
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@kyrsjo@snabelen.no 2022-11-11 08:21
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie this is pretty much what happened to xmmp/jabber? I remember both Facebook messenger and Google talk being just rebadged jabber, and i think you could even talk to people across platforms! Then Google did, well, exactly what the image says.
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@asm0dey@data-folks.masto.host 2022-11-11 08:32
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie I'm sorry for the offtop, but how do you add this "Show more/less" button?
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@cgranade@mathstodon.xyz 2022-11-11 08:47
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie Not a hypothetical, that literally happened with XMPP. I think the difference is that there's a lot more momentum to ActivityPub at this point such that it's harder to capture the fediverse that way (not impossible by any stretch, just harder).
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@chani@neurodifferent.me 2022-11-11 08:59
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie oh dang... Remember Jabber?
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@Kencf618033@social.linux.pizza 2022-11-11 09:08
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie An astute analysis.
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@pulkomandy@mastodon.tetaneutral.net 2022-11-11 09:24
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie replace Mastodon with Jabber/XMPP and notice that this already happened a decade ago.
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@StryderNotavi@aus.social 2022-11-11 09:49
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie One saving grace here is that while it might slow new sign ups on existing services, I can't see the people who've already bothered to get themselves an account migrating into the Google version. Add that to the major virtue of federation being the ability to find a community where you best fit (the local timeline on the Gmail instance would be completely useless) and an attempt at Embrace, Extend, Extinguish could potentially backfire (Embrace, Exodus, Oopsie).
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@quay@vis.social 2022-11-11 12:00
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie I agree the scenario outlined is plausible, but people will always have the option to not join the giga-server. If there is a large corporate server or network next to the current ‘normal’ fediverse, I can live with parallel existences. (I hope others can as well.)
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@technobaboo@tech.lgbt 2022-11-11 13:42
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie I think the only way is to make AP so horrible for their business models that. they wouldn't touch it with a 30 foot pole, tech companies struggle to think long term after all.
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@jumanji@mastodon.social 2022-11-11 13:48
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie IMHO (I am just days here and still learning), I think it would be better if #Mastodon had the option to "allow only" servers, aside the block, silence and limiting servers option (like a Firewall "allow only", all others being blocked.). I mean, any server that admins want to keep connection with, creating a sort of "easier-fo-manage" environment of fediverse, with servers that they feel contribute to that environment.
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@aki@mastodon.gamedev.place 2022-11-11 14:10
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie my understanding is that all Mastodon servers have the ability to not federate with select servers. I'd be ok if mastadon.gamedev.place chooses not to federate with gmail.google.com. sometimes less is better.
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@MxAlba@mastodon.lol 2022-11-11 14:57
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie This is why I say any Mastodon instance created by a Big Brother company must be ruthlessly defederated. Cut them off before they turn evil.
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@admin@mastodon.slightlycyberpunk.com 2022-11-11 15:37
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie Personally, if any of these companies ever set up a Mastodon server, I'm blocking it immediately...
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@anniemo71@toot.wales 2022-11-11 15:48
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie 😱
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@gerwitz@chaos.social 2022-11-11 17:37
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie on one hand, I share the concerns of this post (and find most of the “don’t worry” replies here and in the orange site not compelling). But if the warning is heeded the defense could be as simple as a norm of defederating any server with advertising via UI or content insertion.
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@trendless@zeroes.ca 2022-11-11 17:39
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie *XMPP cosigns this*
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@rorystarr@mstdn.social 2022-11-11 17:50
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie well, that gave me chills.
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@niccokunzmann@toot.wales 2022-11-11 19:16
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie Valid from my perspective: An open standard can prevent some stuff. If it is share-alike licensed even more. Personally I encounter Google's happiness to not fully implement a standard when they add X-WR-TIMEZONE to icalendar to change all time zones in all events. We will encounter people wishing compatibility to major players who go a bit off standard. Are there examples where it worked to have big tech agree to not be greedy/lazy but considerate of diversity? TCP/IP.
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@riley@social.audiovalentine.com 2022-11-11 19:28
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie I definitely do fear the long term consequences of the communtiy-built platforms I love becoming more and more mainstream (Mastodon, Linux, PeerTube, etc), but I would like to hope that there's a possible middle road between no mainstream success and full on EEE.
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@patrick@georgi.family 2022-11-11 20:02
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie My proposal to counter such actors, as in https://georgi.family/notice/AP5cp8gPHXBULUbqs4: Defederate services that monetize user data.
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@rigo@mamot.fr 2022-11-11 21:10
@fiercemilder@mastodon.ie very realistic. I've heard every one of those sentences live! And that feels scary, because competition law is outdated & the competition authorities are 10 years behind :(( @kik1@chaos.social