Post #2172143
2024-08-27 18:42 UTC
Replies (21)
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@kissane@mas.to 2024-08-27 18:47
And even if you’re SUPER PURE along one vector, you’re always going to miss some other one someone feels very motivated to discipline you about. And this must be okay for some people! But I try very hard to live in a state of at least partial uncertainty, because the alternative is a real vulnerability to Going Bad without realizing it. The downside of that stance is that shit just doesn’t roll off. This is true for a lot of us, I think—maybe artists most of all, bc art requires sensitivity.
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@pooserville@dice.camp 2024-08-27 18:47
@kissane@mas.to And because we *do* care about resisting these things, those accusations of moral failure have potential to sting us in a way that “normie” folks wouldn’t feel at all.
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@jkent@xoxo.zone 2024-08-27 18:47
@kissane@mas.to amen, been struggling with this idea a lot recently. The purity tests result in an inordinate amount of -this is why we can't have nice things-
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@JMarkOckerbloom@mastodon.social 2024-08-27 18:53
@kissane@mas.to I agree with that And each of us also encounters others who make it clear that the norm refusal we care about isn't, as far as they're concerned, worth caring about. Sometimes it's said explicitly; sometimes it's implicit but still apparent in what they say. That can be stressful too, with enough scale and repetition. It's not something I think can be eliminated in wide discussions, for various reasons, but it's worth remembering (esp. when my own posts might heighten that feeling).
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@feelnotes@alaskan.social 2024-08-27 18:59
@kissane@mas.to @skinnylatte@hachyderm.io Agree with this but would also add – moral purity (good vs. evil dichotomous thinking) is a trait of White/European culture. There’s a great book called “White Bound” by Matthew Hughey, who spent a year in embedded in both a White antiracist organization and a White supremacist group. Members of *both* groups (White antiracists and neo-nazis) were very preoccupied with demonstrating ideological purity to their group’s mission.
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@hm02@misskey.social 2024-08-27 19:00
@kissane@mas.to "Don't let Perfect be the enemy of Good."
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@bearsong@ravenation.club 2024-08-27 19:02
thanks for sharing @kissane@mas.to one perspective that i find really helpful is chatacterised by: "if something is worth doing, it's worth doing half arsed" trying, and valuing trying, and doing some is so important. every effort, every hope, every positive step is a thing. learning and trying to be who you (i, we) want to be, whilst loving and nurturing the slips and stumbles on the way never let the impossibility of idealised perfection stop us from trying to get on okay, compromising as we go
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@vashbear@hachyderm.io 2024-08-27 19:25
@kissane@mas.to Well said! Prioritization of multiple issues can polarize on a single issue that people agree on. On a single issue, Alice and Bob might agree completely with one another. But then...there might be 9 other issues that Bob believes are relatively more important. Now suddenly, there seems to be a big gap between Alice and Bob on that original issue.
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@libramoon@mastodon.social 2024-08-27 19:30
@kissane@mas.to I feel no need nor desire to be pure I contain multitudes, each with their own moods and peeves
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@bocan@infosec.exchange 2024-08-27 19:32
@kissane@mas.to I'd love to know the generational makeup of those people popping up. I have a theory but don't feel like getting attacked for it myself!
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@eloquence@social.coop 2024-08-27 19:36
@kissane@mas.to That's well put -- and often folks _have_ of course thought about the tradeoffs they themselves have chosen, but get "explained to" by others. IME, many nerdy communities (especially male-dominated ones) have similar refusal of norms cultures, so for folks who've been part of such communities it may feel easier to tolerate or even normal, but it can be very offputting. I think a culture of generosity in how we approach each other is a useful thing for any fedi community to nourish.
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@danaloi@newsie.social 2024-08-27 19:39
@kissane@mas.to yeah well it's pretty hard not to be a slave to the system as long as you want a car or a phone.
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@marcrr@ecoevo.social 2024-08-27 19:55
@kissane@mas.to Thank you! This is such a great framing, and I can definitely see that I've contributed to this in my corner of mastodon. We should try to do better.
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@WhiteCatTamer@mastodon.online 2024-08-27 20:01
@kissane@mas.to I think part of it is a tendency to increase the stakes/contrast between you and your opponent while repeating your strongest arguments that happens during a disagreement. You’ve explained yourself but your opponent Doesn’t Get It which means they are just dismissing the consequences so you’ve got to make them clearer to them. It’s a bad habit and I know I do it, too, as well as jumping into a new conversation already at that higher level. That’s when you need to walk away.
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@gary_alderson@infosec.exchange 2024-08-27 20:25
@kissane@mas.to i think almost opposite - most people are working reg jobs and mostly conformist - they toe the line, the platform is censored (essentially) - it is not anything goes or super inclusive/open minded. to get the real info out there you have to go other places - mostly accurate
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@thefwguy@techhub.social 2024-08-27 21:13
@kissane@mas.to I read your post many times .. honestly I don't get it. I mean, I don't see the problem. Personally I like being here because remind me the magical world of the BBS, more or less same way to communicate with other people. For me is a return to the past. Then yeah, I guess I am a refuter of "norms", aka I like to think with my head. Still I don't get the killing someone because not "pure". What does mean ?
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@crazyeddie@mastodon.social 2024-08-27 21:16
@kissane@mas.to "...there will always be people popping up to tell you that by not being completely pure, you’re killing everyone." And the correct response to that is, "Well I goddamn hope so! People suck."
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@stanley@heretic.social 2024-08-27 21:31
@kissane@mas.to My reaction to folks arguing with your “it’s not your fault” statement…
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@ddutton@universeodon.com 2024-08-27 22:03
@kissane@mas.to I don't deal with people like that. I try to be a good person, but I'm not gonna have someone come along and criticize me because I haven't deleted Facebook. If anyone comes along and does that, it's just an instant block – and I wouldn't care if they are friend or family in real life. I do not use Twitter/X because I believe that platform is 1 million times worse than Facebook at this point.
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@Doctor_J_@mastodon.social 2024-08-27 22:24
@kissane@mas.to this never gets old
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@naught101@mastodon.social 2024-08-27 22:31
@kissane@mas.to which is funny, because that's just people enforcing conformity to a different set of norms.