How would you respond to the statement "Trans women are biologically male" ?
2026-03-28 11:36 UTC
Replies (40)
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@AnotherUsername@lemmy.ml 2026-03-30 00:46
sex and gender are different things. Trans women were biological males. But sex is determined by a lot of factors, including hormones. Trans folks often use man made chemicals to trigger sexual development into the sex they wanted. Think of sex like a slider bar on a screen, with “male” on one side and “female” on the other. You start somewhere on the scale. With hormones you can put your finger on the slider and schwoop that lil sucker anywhere you want. It’s not just for trans folks though! Straights use the slider too. Wanna be more butch than you already are as a guy? Add testosterone! Going through menopause? Add estrogen! The impact of opposite sex hormones to a trans person’s already developed sex organs is mostly to render them useless, but that’s fine, straights do that too, mostly on purpose. That’s what adoption is for. If a trans person wants to go all in on the change, they can get the reverse-that-thang surgery and turn that outie into an innie. At that point, there’s like… Zero difference between a “natural born” woman who had a hysterectomy for some reason, and a trans woman. It’s all very science fiction when you get into the details.
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@TheLeadenSea@sh.itjust.works 2026-03-28 12:04
Biological sex (male, female, intersex) refers to the physical aspects of your body, such as primary sex characteristics (reproductive organs), secondary sex characteristics (body hair, breasts, fat distribution, etc), hormone levels (estrogen, testosterone), and chromosomes. Gender (man, woman, nonbinary, other terms) is more about an internal sense of self, how you see yourself and how you want your body to be, as well as what social category you belong in. A trans woman is a person who was biologically male at birth, but sees herself as a woman/wants her body to align with her gender (woman). Not all trans women medically transition, and that's ok, but for those who do, it can change various aspects of their biological sex, such as hormone levels and secondary sex characteristics, so it may not be entirely true to say that trans women (post transition) are biologically male either.
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@nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2026-03-28 22:20
who cares if someone asks to be called she/her/susan then just do it. it doesn't need to be so complicated conservatives ranting about biology are attacking a straw man. nobody actually gives a shit
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@dangling_cat@piefed.blahaj.zone 2026-03-28 16:12
It’s extremely ~~hairy~~ messy to define biological sex. Whoever wants to argue has a middle school level understanding of biology, refuse to learn and completely ignores the science. See 
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@RiverRock@lemmy.ml 2026-03-28 15:20
"You're biologically a loser lmao"
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@GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world 2026-03-28 13:10
Are eunuchs biologically agender? Are intersex people with chimerism or cryptorchidism biologically two genders at once? Are women who have had hysterectomies biologically male? The answer to all of the above is, and I say this with all the respect in the world, a resounding 'no.'
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@lordbritishbusiness@lemmy.world 2026-03-28 23:52
1: Yes. 2: Not really. It's more about self image and social presentation. 3: Best response I have is, "And?" Covers a lot of bases. 4: Same way you get any title like Doctor, or Fam, you need to be accepted into the community by peers, and not necessarily universally.
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@Black_Beard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2026-03-29 04:40
In addition to what others have said, I'd like to add a little more information. Hormones work by changing your gene expression. Every one of us has all the DNA for both typically male and typically female traits. Hormones play a part in deciding what parts of your DNA are active within your cells and what parts aren't. There's a complicated set of interactions that decides what hormones you produce naturally and how your body responds to them. Sometimes something happens in an atypical way with that complex set of interactions and that's how intersex people exist. (There are examples of people with XY chromosomes who have internal testes but are insensitive to testosterone and grow up female, and even examples of people with XY chromosomes who have functioning uteruses and have given birth naturally. It can get very complicated) When you go on HRT as part of a medical transition, the instructions your cells are following in your DNA switch to the instructions tied to those hormones. That's how trans people's bodies change. Their cells are actually functioning differently. A trans women on estrogen for a long enough time will eventually have their blood proteins go to a more typically female profile. They'll also see their risk factor for certain diseases switch. The risk of cardiovascular disease goes down (typically something that affects more males) and their risk for autoimmune disease go up (typically something that affects more females). So are trans woman biologically men? Eh, not quite. Saying somebody is biologically male/female is a little reductive. It can be complicated.
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@mech@feddit.org 2026-03-28 14:12
I wouldn't engage in discussion with people saying that. Nothing good can come from it, and they probably aren't people worth spending time with.
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@davel@lemmy.ml 2026-03-28 19:28
In general, please don’t ask loaded, third-rail questions on [!asklemmy@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/asklemmy), because 1. it’s a PITA for mods, and 2. that’s not what the community is for:. It’s supposed to be a clone of [r/askreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/).
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@FriendOfDeSoto@startrek.website 2026-03-28 14:39
Because this feels like a loaded statement, I'd respond like this: Biology makes mistakes. Biology is fallible. To frame this about biology is not sufficiently complex to address the issue. 1. Talk to experts. 2. The initial statement seems to me is that of a culture warrior, not a curious mind. Therefore it doesn't matter to me. 3. Compassion doesn't require logic. But if you want sonething slightly logical: I don't understand quantum physics either. I'm reliably informed it exists. Me being unable to grasp the uncertainty principle leaves me feeling uneasy and frustrated. Others may feel in a comparable way about gender identity. It's okay to admit that you don't get it. I don't fully understand it either. It's not okay to be an asshole about it. 4. Apples to rotten pears.
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@southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 2026-03-28 21:46
Aight, you asked multiple questions, so you're going to get some strange answers, possibly including this one. To your title question, the only time I've heard anyone say that, they were being a douche. My response online is mostly of the "down vote, report if appropriate, and move on" variety. In meat space, my response is usually either an eye roll and walking off, or a "fucking moron" and walking off. I have big dude privilege in meat space, and roll well armed, so have no need to pretend to be nice to douche nozzles spewing bullshit. The other questions are harder. 1: for a given value of factual, sure, I guess. But it's using imprecise language that's been weaponized, so I would be dubious of someone stating it until there was more context. "Biological" isn't as definitive and limited in usages as to be without question in that context. 2: don't matter. If a guy says he's a guy, he's a guy. If a gal says she's a gal, she's a gal. End of fucking story, and I will gladly tell anyone fucking with my trans homies that they're a fucking moron and be willing to either walk off, or fuck them up if they insist. IDGAF about sometimes XY or XX status, or any of the other possible combinations (remember when I said "Biological" isn't that useful or definitive? Yeah, biology ain't a binary). I care about the person's expressed self. It's about basic human decency and respect. 3: I wouldn't respond logically. It doesn't merit any effort on my part. I'm not in the business of convincing anyone that everyone has human rights, should have equal acces to all civil rights, or that someone else's gender is none of their fucking business. It isn't about logic. Anyone at this point trying to frame gender as some kind of science debate is a douche and can go fuck themselves. The debate at this point has nothing to do with "biology". It's about human rights. And yes, I will fight on that hill. 4: it would only contradict if the person trying to bring "biology" into a conversation is being a douche instead of just missing the point. I don't automatically assume a person trying to frame the subject in those terms is acting with malice. So they may not be contradicting the fact that trans women are women. They may just be exploring the language of transness in an attempt to better understand the matter. And that's okay. It isn't a built in part of language, so everyone has to absorb the concepts over time. Alas, assholes and morons use that language to denigrate trans people. So I also can't assume someone *isn't* doing so. I have to wait for context, or be proactive in stating that I ain't putting up with bigotry, so if that's where they're going, it won't end well. Me? The debate is over. What's still in play is people finding their path to internalizing the subject. We don't get to debate what is a fundamental human experience. Trans people exist. It isn't imaginary on their part, it isn't bad parenting, it isn't trauma. They're trans, and that's it.
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@Yerbouti@sh.itjust.works 2026-03-29 16:11
Don't debate with idiots. They drag you down at their level and beat you with experience. - Mark Twain Seriously, complex question usually requires complex answers, the type that doesn't fit in a 10 words meme. If I learned anything, it's that you won't convinced people who don't care about the truth. People won't change their mind unless they are personally affected by something. They don't deserve the tolerance they refuse to others.
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@pineapple@lemmy.ml 2026-03-28 22:46
(My opinion) 1. Yes it is factually correct, but it's not an argument 2. maybe matters (what bathroom do they use I have no idea) 3. I would say they are correct but it doesn't prove anything about trans people being invalid (trans people are valid af, having the courage to change your gender is something I couldn't imagine) 4. There is a difference between gender and sex. Sex is your biology, gender is what you identify as. Your sex can be male while your gender being female. I want to be clear I'm not queer this is just what I have learnt in school (crazy our school actually teaches us about this), I could be wrong.
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@gray@lemmy.ml 2026-03-28 12:31
Edit: forgot point 3 There are many different perspectives on this. I subscribe to the old Judith Butler perspective that sex=gender and they are both a social construct. 1. No, biological gender is not in the sphere of facts. Chromosomes, genitalia, hormones and biology in general are in the realm of facts. Lumping them together into the category "sex" is social construction and not scientific (at least not part of natural science). 2. I don't think it is. 3. See above. 4. Trans women are simply women who were not designated as such at birth. No need to mix in biology. Therefore no contradiction.
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@daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2026-03-28 15:52
Follow up question: "And why does it have any importance for you the presence or not of some chromosomes, so you need to be so explicit about it?"
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@starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2026-03-28 16:03
Depends on who's saying it. For most people it's just not worth saying anything. Anything you say goes in one ear and out the other If they seem like they're asking in good faith or I just want to practice my rhetoric, I'll ask what they mean by "biologically male." Chromosomally, maybe. Hormonally? Maybe not. Breast cancer doesn't care about your chromosomes.
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@migo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2026-03-28 20:46
My answer: if we're sat the point that you don't even understand the definitions of sex, gender and sexuality I don't think we have the time to discuss this. Ultimately, regardless of definitions, we should treat humans as humans and be kind to one another.
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@Lioffproxy@lemmy.world 2026-03-28 21:19
Why do I have to have an opinion? Why can't we just let them be.
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@zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 2026-03-29 13:45
The only way that trans people make sense is if gender and sex are two separate things. How is it that I, a straight man, am attracted to trans women if they're actually men? Does that mean that I'm bisexual? No, because I'm not attracted to cis men. (Or trans men, for that matter.) Think about the pretzel logic you have to get into if you have a worldview like JK Rowling. "Bisexual for femininity" isn't a thing. Straight men are attracted to women. Cis women, trans women. Women. Period. Now, I know that it's about more than attraction, but this is what got me to start thinking about this. Another was this thought experiment somebody gave me: "If your dick got chopped off, would you instantly turn into a woman?" No, of course not. At this point a gender essentialist would probably start talking about chromosomes. Chromosomes determine what your gender is! *Nobody* uses this as a definition for gender in any practical way, though. When you're looking at somebody from across the room, you don't know what their chromosomes are. How many of your friends do you have chromosomal data on? How about the people you've dated? Are they going to use chromosomes to determine which bathroom you can use? Or which team you can play on? This is incoherent. It's like basing gender upon whether you have an even or odd number of atoms in your body. I had one person tell me that a trans woman would be unsuitable for marriage because she couldn't give birth. I'm not interested in having children, but setting that aside...would they say the same thing about a cis woman who's infertile? Every single one of these arguments is incoherent.
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@marcie@lemmy.ml 2026-03-28 15:10
breaking their nose
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@Naich@piefed.world 2026-03-28 14:41
There are about 20 different ways of assigning someone a description of "male" or "female" - examples are the gametes someone produces, their genitals, their hormone levels, or how their brains are wired. Other species can have more than 2 genders or change from one gender to another, and it could be argued that mushrooms have hundreds of them. There are also organisms which have both male and female characteristics in the same body - in some cases, they have both genitals. The natural world is a messy place when it comes to gender, and there are no rules. Humans like to define things, give them names and put them in neat little boxes, but nature isn't like that. Nature doesn't give a fuck that humans like to assign people one gender or another. Nature creates people who have some male and some female characteristics because there is no natural rule that says everything has to be one or the other. A person with male genitals can have a brain wired up in a female style. Their brain says they are female, but they were defined as male at birth. These are the people who society fails miserably in its rigid adherence to the philosophy of male/female, in a world where this distinction does not actually exist. The words "biologically male" are loaded, creating an assumption that such a thing is easily definable, and that a person must be one gender or another. This is simply not the case.
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@SpiceDealer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2026-03-29 03:28
You should base your response on the basis of civil liberties: a trans persons' preferred identity should accepted because they're within their right to do so. We, in return, should respect their decision.
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@DrivebyHaiku@lemmy.ca 2026-03-30 16:09
Lot you are covering here but quick fire. 1. No it is not correct. Sex is a multifaceted thing split between chromosomal, phenotypic and hormonal aspects. Horomonal transition changes phenotypic (physical structural aspects of sex) structures and changes the way the body chemically responds to fit a physical presentation more in line with the group the person is transitioning to more than the group they transition from. If you wanted to be very pedantic about it in a way that is somewhat unkind post medical transition trans people are functionally intersex but for medical purposes like determining dosages of medications and how they respond to medical procedures they are consistent with membership of their post transition group. A trans woman treated as a man by a pharmacologist would be getting the wrong dosage. In this case they need to be medically treated as a woman to receive adequate care. . 2. The assumption that there is inherent biological factors that do not change create logistical problems and errors in medical care. There is a widespread lack in the medical system of doctors who understand these principles which mean trans people can receive varying quality of care from people like EMTs or Emergency services based on the political whims of the place they are in. It also throws gasoline on bigoted rhetoric that trans people aren't "real" but are frauds "just pretending" as though their needs to be treated as their sex are just skin deep and not a complex mix of complex and fundamental biologic changes and a series of mental and social challenges of interfacing with a society that is unprepared to do the work to understand these differences. . 3. Calling a trans woman "biologically male" is just calling her a man under a different format. That's really all it is. It affects a trans person mentally the same because it causes them to have their physical characteristics reported back to them the exact same way. It tells them "we don't care about your psychological needs" The term "biological" being used isn't scientifically consistent with what is actually going on. The terms are "trans" and "cis" women/men because that registers the difference of experience in a way that doesn't take one's greatest challenges of existing and shove their nose in it. It acknowledges that they have crossed a boundary and are what they say they are. "Biological male" is bigotry disguised behind a pseudo scientific veneer. . 4. It contradicts. "Biologically male" places the EMPHASIS on MALE. When looking at any gender inclusive or gendered language the noun is key, the adjective is supplement. A femBOY is a man who is comfortable in his manhood with the gender expression that is feminine. A tomGIRL is the opposite. A trans WOMAN and a cis WOMAN are both in language affirmed as culturally feminine. A "Biological MALE" is medicalizing that persons experience and placing the emphasis not on their cultural experience or on their psychological needs, it's fronting the speakers desire to comment on that person's body and categorize the subject as a man with a masculine experience.
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@MerryJaneDoe@piefed.world 2026-03-29 19:16
It's a statement. It needs no response. 1. Maybe. 2. No. Because biology is not a black/white science. There are shades of gray. If you define male as "XY" , then what is a person born "XXY"? What if that person is born with both a penis and vagina? 3. It's not a logical statement to begin with, it's a statement of taxonomy, a classification. It's like saying "How do you argue with someone who thinks red and pink are the same color?" You don't. They see what they see. 4. "woman" is a gender (a sociological term, not a biological classification). And, of course, I have MUCH more to say on the subject. But, ya know, gotta start the conversation somewhere.... Good questions, keep 'em coming!
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@mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2026-03-29 07:24
1. It depends on what you’re referring to. Sex and gender are two different things. “Biology” is unfortunately a common talking point for transphobes who inexorably link the two, so it immediately makes lots of people doubt a good-faith conversation. Transphobes like to use “biology” to try to prove that sex and gender are hard binaries. In reality, biology is all kinds of messy. But that’s an entirely different tangent. From a biological sex perspective, it would (likely) be factually correct. They have XY chromosomes, were AMAB, etc… (Not *every* trans woman will fit that description, because of situations like intersex people who don’t fit into nice neat little male/female checkboxes. Again, biology is messy and imprecise. But for the purpose of this conversation, I think we can agree that it is generally correct.) But again, transphobes will often try to pounce on that to falsely exclaim that you believe trans women are really men. 2. Not really, because of the whole “gender isn’t sex” thing. Biologically speaking, they could be a half-male-crab-half-female-porcupine abomination for all I care. It still wouldn’t affect their gender, and I still wouldn’t give a fuck which restroom they used. 3. I think I just did. Biology doesn’t determine gender. Simply make sure to cover the whole “gender isn’t sex” thing, to stave off the transphobes who think I’m agreeing with them. In reality, the best response is usually a half-hearted “yeah, so?” Because the people making statements like this *usually* aren’t doing so in good faith. At best, they’re sorely uneducated about sex, gender, society’s effect on the two, etc… And at worst they’re trying to bait an argument or set up some kind of gotcha moment. Sometimes the best response is to simply not take the bait, because we have better things to spend our time on. 4. Because gender isn’t sex. Trans women are women, because genetics or hormones don’t determine your gender. Someone can simultaneously be both biologically male and identify as a woman. It’s not a zero-sum game where one negates or overrules the other, because they’re not linked.
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@Vanth@reddthat.com 2026-03-28 13:31
Humans don't fit neatly into a male bucket and a female bucket. I'm not interested in discyssing this with anyone unless they're referring to studies from scientists and medical professionals who actually have some knowledge behind their statements.
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@jefferyjefferson@lemmy.org 2026-03-28 22:14
I feel like it doesn't really warrant a response, but the statement is true nonetheless.
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@theywilleatthestars@lemmy.world 2026-03-28 22:46
"Male and female are ultimately words that humans made up. Transitioning affects most of the ways that we define which is which. If you define male and female solely based on the things that are unchangeable using current technology, that's your fault."
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@teagrrl@lemmy.ml 2026-03-29 19:29
I don't care, trans women are hot.
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@ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 2026-03-28 14:47
I would say that is comparing personal identity to a medical definition, two independent and separate concepts. Personally, I look at people pointing this out like I look at people that feel the need to point out to others that a woman has breast implants. It's her choice to do what she wants to her own body and pointing it out makes you look like a rude asshole.
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@Nemo@slrpnk.net 2026-03-28 13:31
1. "Biologically fe/male" is a pseudoscientific term created to delegitimize trans individuals, so 2. It does not matter 3. see above 4. It's intended to be a contradiction, an insidious doubt or caveat that delegitimizes the declaration that trans individuals are who they say they are. Don't fall for it. Don't perpetuate it. Delete this post, is my advice.
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@bufalo1973@piefed.social 2026-03-28 13:36
What is a man? A miserable pile of... Sorry, wrong thread😜😁
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@DoomSayer@lemmy.ml 2026-03-30 08:02
There are a lot of good points here, but one that I feel often gets overlooked at times like this is in the history of a person's experience. Completely sidestepping the debate, let's assume a trans woman is a woman. What we're acknowledging here is that this person lived some of her life as a boy or man. This would include the various biases of that. A (biological) woman would have lived with a single set of biases and challenges. In addition to the huge experiences around child birth, female reproductive health is seriously under provided for. I've met many women with ongoing health issues related to it that appear to be sidelined or completely ignored by medical science. Trans women clearly have their own challenges, but their societal biases would be different as would their possible health issues. This leads to me believe that we might view a person outwardly as being a woman, but being a biological woman or a trans woman leads to different sets of life experiences that would likely have significant influences on a person's worldview, modes of communication, hobbies, interests etc. I'd say that a trans woman is a "woman" now, but in not having lived as a girl or young woman that she is a trans woman. In the same way that a (biological) woman is not and never will be a trans woman.
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@Bazell@lemmy.zip 2026-03-28 19:42
Would ask to provide separate definitions for woman, man, male and female. We can't jump to conclusions about someone's statement before seeing the whole picture of what is happening in his mind.
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@Hexadecimalkink@lemmy.ml 2026-03-30 05:47
The IOC just put out guidance on this and it makes sense to me.
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@wuphysics87@lemmy.ml 2026-03-28 13:12
There's a lot to gleen from why the person is asking the question. It's not a good faith question. They already have their answer. I wouldn't engage it other than to ask another question like "why do you ask?" or "why does it matter?"
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@HubertManne@piefed.social 2026-03-28 19:51
shrug. I mean its true but so.
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@YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today 2026-03-30 06:20
Let them compete in non sanctioned ways. But there is a definitive advantage to having naturally occurring heart destroying hormones. I don't think mtf trans folk are trying to game the system by going through transition hell, but in serious situations a mtf person who grew up on test is likely going to win the fight all other things considered.
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@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2026-03-28 19:52
They are genetically. How they feel/identify is their problem