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Jupiter Rowland @jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu · Dec 20, 2025

New Fediverse features that actually aren't new

Many innovations that are being "brought to the Fediverse" have been in the Fediverse for a decade or longer; CW: long (over 2,500 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta Hover or focus to reveal Sensitive
Whenever someone announces to "bring" something "to the Fediverse", chances are that Friendica has actually had it since 2010, for five and a half years longer than Mastodon has been around. For example, just about everyone on Mastodon is fully convinced that Eugen Rochko has brought quote-posts to the Fediverse this year. That's because next to nobody on Mastodon knows that Friendica has been able to quote-post practically everything in the Fediverse, including Mastodon toots, for 15 years now. And if Friendica doesn't have it, chances are still that Hubzilla has it, and that Hubzilla has probably had it for longer than Mastodon has been around, too. For example, private messages that are actually private. Mastodon doesn't have them because the "privacy" of Mastodon DMs is only "guaranteed" by limiting whom a DM is sent to. Hubzilla does have them and has had them since 2012, since it was still named Red. How? Because Hubzilla also limits who is permitted to see a DM. Oh, and Hubzilla even offers optional encryption on top of that. Or how about server-independent identity? Everyone still waiting for Bluesky to finally be the pioneer who invents this and implements it for the first time? LOL! Once again, Hubzilla has had this since 2012. Not a vague concept, not an unstable proof-of-concept, but daily-driven by production-grade channels on production-grade servers. (streams) has it, too, inherited from Hubzilla through a whole number of forks. Forte has it, too, and Forte is the first and, so far, only Fediverse server software that uses ActivityPub for nomadic identity. Now I'm waiting for someone to announce that something will "bring" actual groups "to the Fediverse". A feature that was actually introduced to the Fediverse by StatusNet in 2008, and that's also available on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. Not to mention that the very principle of the Threadiverse (Lemmy, the remains of /kbin, Mbin, PieFed) is based on groups. This is what happens when you think that the feature set of the whole Fediverse is the feature set of Mastodon and maybe Pixelfed because that's all you know. Speaking of Mastodon: Just because it's being "brought to the Fediverse", doesn't mean it'll be adopted by Mastodon. #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonCentrism #MastodonNormativity #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #NomadicIdentity #StatusNet #Threadiverse #Lemmy #/kbin #Mbin #PieFed #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups
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Jupiter Rowland @jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu · Jul 16, 2026
Replying to @patrickleavy@mastodon.social
@@patrickleavy@mastodon.social You don't even have to build it. It already exists in the Fediverse. No need to reinvent the wheel. Hubzilla, (streams) and forte offer you not only full nomadic identity, but also groups. Optionally private groups. That can optionally hide from Fediverse account/channel directories. Optionally with any number of moderators from anywhere on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. They have the most advanced permissions systems in the whole Fediverse. They support enclosed threaded one-post-many-comments conversations with thread titles like on Facebook, like on Tumblr, like on any blog out there, like in any forum out there. The character limit on Hubzilla is over 16 million; on (streams) and Forte, it's over 24 million. The number of options in polls is practically unlimited, as is the number of images that can be embedded in messages. And with "embedded," I mean like in a blog post or on a website with text above and below the images. At the same time, they're part of the Fediverse. Hubzilla is based on Zot6/an older version of Nomad; ActivityPub can be activated. (streams) is based on Nomad; ActivityPub is optional, but activated by default. Forte is based on ActivityPub. Any Fediverse software that recognises groups recognises their groups as such. Here is an article with a number of tables in which I've compared the features of Mastodon, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte: https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/0a75de76-eb27-4149-b708-f20b2f79d392 CC: @@silverpill@mitra.social #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #FacebookGroups #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups
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Jupiter Rowland @jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu · Jul 16, 2026
Replying to @patrickleavy@mastodon.social
@@patrickleavy@mastodon.social A whole lot. Sorry, but this will be very very very long again. I don't know if you've read my previous (very long) commentary. But just implementing one or two FEPs won't get you the same full-blown nomadic identity (https://joinfediverse.wiki/Nomadic_identity) that Hubzilla (what I'm writing from right now; https://hubzilla.org https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubzilla https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla) has had since 2012. And having this level of nomadic identity has to be the goal. What has to be done is: Take something like Mastodon. Non-nomadic. Where your account, your login, equals your identity. Make your identity cloneable Now, before you can make identities nomadic, you have to uncouple them from the login, from the account. Mastodon has to introduce a sort of container for your identity, like the channels that Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte have always had (https://joinfediverse.wiki/Channels_(Hubzilla_&_(streams))) This is necessary so that a future nomadic Mastodon will know what to clone and what not to clone. For example, cloning your password is dangerous nonsense. So, everything that makes up your account except for your login credentials will have to be moved into this container. your short nameyour long nameyour profile images, including alt-textsyour profileyour followersyour followedyour toots, including stats like faves, boosts etc.copies of the conversation trees of all your toots, including stats like faves, boosts etc. as well as attached files for each messageall files you've ever attached to tootsyour settingsyour filtersyour mutesyour blocksyour server blocksetc.Essentially, everything except for your login credentials will have to be moved from directly residing on your account into that box. Change your login Also, your login will have to change from short name + passphrase to e-mail + passphrase. Your short name is part of your identity, it's in the container, it will be cloned, so it can't be used to log you in anymore. In order for this to work, half of Mastodon's server backend will have to be rewritten. Decentralised IDs Next, Mastodon must switch from the Webfinger IDs that it uses now to decentralised IDs as per FEP-ef61. For a while, I guess, it will have to use both next to one another. Then it will have to phase out its Webfinger IDs. The decentralised IDs must be tested against other Fediverse software that already understands them or that's nomadic itself: (streams), Forte, Mitra, Tootik. For example, @@silverpill@mitra.social of Mitra and @Mike Macgirvin of (streams) and Forte must test whether their software correctly understands Mastodon's DIDs. And the Mastodon developers must test whether Mastodon correctly understands the DIDs from Fediverse server applications that already use them. Once it has gotten rid of its Webfinger IDs, the next phase can start. Implement cloning within Mastodon The central element of nomadic identity is not the ability to move your identity. That's only a byproduct of cloning your identity. A clone, in nomadic identity, is a full backup of the container with your identity in it. A real-time, live, bidirectional backup that you can log into and use just like the "original". The clone always has the same idea as the original, regardless of which server it's on. The key elements of clones and cloning must be implemented and tested: cloning an identity container to a different server after registering a new, blank account therecloning an identity container to a different server where you already have an account with a different containerised identityanything that happens on the original being sync'd to the cloneanything that happens on the clone being sync'd to the originalclone going offline, things happening on the original, clone coming back online, things that happened on the original being reliably sync'd to the cloneoriginal going offline, clone still working with the ID based on the original's domainoriginal going offline, things happening on the clone, original coming back online, things that happened on the clone being reliably sync'd to the originalmaking additional clones of an identity container that has already been cloned at least oncethe whole syncing shebang from the original to any number of clonesthe whole syncing shebang from one of the clones to the original and also directly to the other clonesdeclaring one of the clones the new original, thus changing the ID of both the former original and all clones Implement moving within Mastodon Only when cloning works reliably, we can talk about moving, even though that's what everyone on Mastodon is giddy about. Why? Because moving involves cloning. It's an automated process. At least it is on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, and it really should be one on nomadic Mastodon. Basically, first you make a clone. Then you declare the clone the new original, and your old original is demoted to a clone. Then you have to wait until your change of ID from changing the original has federated to all your followers and followed and everywhere and whatnot. Then, one last sync so that both the former-clone-now-new-original and the old-original-now-clone are really identical, and you won't lose any data. Then your old-original-now-clone is deleted. We don't want to leave any dead stuff behind, now, do we? Lastly, if your old account where your old original used to reside has no other identity on it, the whole account is deleted. In nomadic containerised identity, accounts cannot/should not exist with no identity container on them. Cloning and moving beyond Mastodon The last possible step is still utter science-fiction: Cloning or moving from Mastodon to something else that's nomadic and understands FEP-ef61. Cloning or moving from Mastodon to Mitra. From Mastodon to Tootik. From Mastodon to (streams). From Mastodon to Forte. Oh, and maybe also back to Mastodon. The difficult part is not only to make Mastodon capable of cloning identity containers to other nomadic software. And to make Mastodon accept identity containers from other nomadic software being cloned to Mastodon. I mean, this would be difficult already. (streams) and Forte are vastly, vastly different from Mastodon. No, the difficult part is to make these four capable of cloning from or to someplace else. As it stands now, you can only clone from Mitra to Mitra, from Tootik to Tootik, from (streams) to (streams), from Forte to Forte. Even cloning between (streams) and Forte has never been possible, even though they're very similar. Oh, and cloning from and to Hubzilla is another story because Hubzilla doesn't have FEP-ef61 implemented. #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Mitra #Tootik #NomadicIdentity
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Jupiter Rowland @jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu · Apr 26, 2026
Replying to @silverpill@mitra.social
@@silverpill@mitra.social Probably someone who is very staunchly opposed to blockchains, crypto and NFTs... ...vs earlier Mitra that openly advertised exactly that stuff as its own future. To be honest, I'm not too fond of these three either. #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mitra
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Jupiter Rowland @jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu · Mar 14, 2026
Boosted by silverpill @silverpill@mitra.social
Replying to on mastodon.social
@@reiver@mastodon.social @@silverpill@mitra.social This is simply because little is written about Forte on the Web. However, I was there when Forte was born back in September, 2024. I was on (streams) back then. Mike Macgirvin had implemented FEP-ef61 in the "nomad" branch of the streams repository a few months ago to test it. When he was confident enough, he merged the "nomad" branch into the regular "dev" branch. In July, 2024, he merged the "dev" branch into the "release" branch, causing the FEP-ef61 implementation to be rolled out to daily-driver (streams) servers. However, it was a maze of Nomad and Zot6 and non-nomadic ActivityPub and FEP-ef61 identities for everything that boiled over. (streams) wouldn't federate with anything anymore, not even with itself. My two still existing (streams) channels, @Jupiter Rowland's (streams) outlet and @Jupiter's Fedi-Memes on (streams), were both affected by this. They were amongst the very first (streams) channels created on an account with FEP-ef61 DID support. Mike would spend half of the summer trying to figure out what had happened and how to fix it. Even while (streams) was still broken, Forte was born in August, 2024 when Mike forked the streams repository and ripped all traces of Nomad and Zot6 support out, probably also in order to get rid of the corresponding IDs and facilitate debugging. This means that FEP-ef61, which had literally caused this whole mayhem and which has to be considered responsible for Forte's very existence, was a) implemented in the streams repository when it was forked into Forte and b) not removed from Forte post-fork. It would not have made any sense to remove FEP-ef61 when one reason why Forte was made at that point in history was in order to debug FEP-ef61. Sidenotes: Mike managed to fix (streams). This whole issue burned him out so much that he officially quit developing Fediverse software, effective September 1st, 2024, midnight. He still carries on working on both (streams) and Forte because nobody else does, what with how many people even use them. #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Streams #(streams) #Forte #FEP_ef61
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Jupiter Rowland @jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu · Feb 12, 2026
Boosted by silverpill @silverpill@mitra.social
Work has been resumed on establishing connections between the Fediverse and the likewise decentralised metaverse, i.e. OpenSimulator. For now, the only feature that's actually implemented is sending OpenSim group messages out via ActivityPub. However, it has been tested against the opposite end of the Fediverse from Mastodon: Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. https://codeberg.org/fionasweet/OS-AP https://opensimworld.com/post/128355 #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #ActivityPub #OpenSim #OpenSimulator #Metaverse #VirtualWorlds
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