Conversation (13)
Showing 12 of 13 cached locally.
1 comment is reported by the remote server but not cached here yet
Open reply Open reply 
MyView
@MyView@aus.social ·Jul 07
@weekendspy@mastodon.nz
In Australia there is Wealthfare ... believed by most to be sustainable and has full government support ...
And for the ordinary people it's Welfare .. and believed by all and sundry to be unsustainable, so media calls it bludging and governments are always looking for way to reduce it.
Open reply
The Weekend Spy 
@weekendspy@mastodon.nz ·Jul 07
Thread reply
@MyView@aus.social let's just call it UNWELLfare — because nobody gets out unscathed, not even those at the top. All empires fall, eventually.
Open reply 
gvs
@gvs@rebelbase.site ·Jul 07
@weekendspy@mastodon.nz There are no subsidies and excemptions under capitalism. You've been led to believe that a system which steals most of the produced wealth and distributes it as it sees fit is capitalism. It is not. Mises improved the definition of capitalism (and communism) to control of production instead of just ownership). Bottom line, we currently do not have capitalism.
BTW, capitalism would at a minimum require money (capital) to be market driven instead of issued by an institute which is a plank in the communist manifesto (central banks)
Open reply
The Weekend Spy
@weekendspy@mastodon.nz ·Jul 07
Thread reply
@gvs@rebelbase.site I think that's a fair call out, but if we are not under capitalism by those definitions, then what the heck are we even in? And more importantly, how do we escape it?
Open reply
gvs
@gvs@rebelbase.site ·Jul 07
Thread reply
@weekendspy@mastodon.nz the best term possibly is chronyism. Markets and more importantly the value of money is under control of unelected faceless bureaucrats (remember Mises distinction between ownership and control). Those bureaucrats are the real power in the world as they can bankrupt governments. They steal the value of your money while it remains in your wallet and they orchestrate inflation by printing money. We have to remove them from power. And limit governments (their servants) to the strict minimum
Open reply
The Weekend Spy
@weekendspy@mastodon.nz ·Jul 07
Thread reply
@gvs@rebelbase.site I'm on board with that, simply based on seeing that we (the masses) have never gotten back the value for what we collectively put in (through taxes) and I recognise the insanity of continuing with the status quo.
But how do we do that, while also holding to account the corporations and businesses that destroy the environment, create monopolies, and operate unethically, basically perpetuating the enslavement of working people, because THEY TOO favour less government oversight, and would prefer that over continuing to bribe their political plants like they do now.
Open reply
gvs
@gvs@rebelbase.site ·Jul 07
Thread reply
@weekendspy@mastodon.nz Here's a catch 22. They do that NOW by bribing politicians. So you cannot fight them with more government. They do want less oversight for themselves but more for their competition.
The solution is not easy, if we manage to remove the control they have over society, it's still up to the masses to deal with companies that hold acceptable values. But now, you are not even given that choice (as companies do well through political power and subsidies).
I'm a capitalist, not because I'm under the impression that it will prevent all bad things, but because it is the only economical system compatible with a free society based in the non aggression principle
Open reply
The Weekend Spy
@weekendspy@mastodon.nz ·Jul 07
Thread reply
@gvs@rebelbase.site I don’t agree that capitalism isn’t aggressive, anything that promotes meritocracy and the hoarding of resources for survival, has underlying violence at it’s core. And I’m not opposed to using anarchy to dismantle that system, which I consider to be historically violent, especially against indigenous and queer people. Those groups are not “free”. The freedom you talk about is an illusion, it’s taken a lot of blood and slavery to get this point.
Open reply 
Manc AvGeek
@mancavgeek@social.teamb.space ·Jul 07
@weekendspy@mastodon.nz They also refuse to pay many of their staff a living wage.
And when those staff, the people who create the wealth those businesses are hoarding, ask for government assistance, those businesses point and scream "COMMUNISM!" and demand more tax breaks, more opt-outs, and less regulation.
Open reply
The Weekend Spy
@weekendspy@mastodon.nz ·Jul 07
Thread reply
@mancavgeek@social.teamb.space bring back bartering.
People who don't have skills to contribute in exchange for food, can eat their money instead.
Open reply 
@iveyline
@Iveyline@mastodon.nz ·Jul 07
@weekendspy@mastodon.nz Brilliant. A great question.
Open reply 
The Turtle
@the_turtle@mastodon.sdf.org ·Jul 07
@weekendspy@mastodon.nz I was thinking on a variant of that, the observation that everyday white assholes who decry "socialism" are the first ones to invade low-priced restaurants on "kids eat free" night.
Friend of mine used to call them "BMNTs."
Big mess. No tip.