Post #463125
2024-10-26 04:19 UTC
Replies (12)
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@rschwebel@norden.social 2024-10-26 05:18
@LaF0rge Thanks, Harald, for this perceptive analysis! While "There IS no politics in Open Source" (said by one of the core kernel maintainers many years ago) was always meant ironical, the issue shows how far daytime reality has moved away from the fundamental rights and values, as written down in the Open Source definition, UN Charta, Grundgesetz and other constitutional documents. For me it shows clearly that it is really time to take side of those fundamentals in a more energic way.
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@AdrianVovk@fosstodon.org 2024-10-26 05:49
@LaF0rge The law makes no distinction between employees of banned companies working on their own time versus on company time. That's the legal basis of the move. And frankly, I wouldn't want that distinction. The companies on the list are there for a reason: they're the ones building the tech used to commit the war crimes. The drones and missiles used run Linux. They can, b/c it's FOSS. But allowing the same people who make the weapons killing Ukrainians participate in our communities is on us.
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@AdrianVovk@fosstodon.org 2024-10-26 05:50
@LaF0rge Companies pay their employees to contribute to FOSS if and only if it benefits the companies in some way. Russian defense contractors don't contribute to Linux out of the goodness of their hearts. Letting them keep contributing means they keep benefiting The people that work for these companies but contribute in their free time don't have my sympathy too. Their day job is still building the tools to kill innocent people, and if all that costs them is their hobby then they got off easy
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@cybertailor@wetdry.world 2024-10-26 07:26
@LaF0rge this is a symptom of corporate takeover of Linux. No sanctions target Linus or the foundation directly, but American companies seemingly want to avoid toxic association with sanctioned Russian companies. The common people suffer when powerful people fight.
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@dg3hda@aschaffenburg.social 2024-10-26 08:32
@LaF0rge did you think about the protection this gives to russian maintainers? Russia might nudge or force those maintainers to do something for its hybrid, low level war. They are no longer a target for this.
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@ronya@chaos.social 2024-10-26 08:43
@LaF0rge I largely concur with your opinion, except for this bit: “[…] passport, their employer or their place of residence” Ignoring the whole Linux clusterfuck for a moment, why do you feel like employer should be a protected category? My feelings: We must not discriminate against properties one can’t control. Usually who you work for is something you can control. If one works for a company I deem sus, why should I not extend that judgement to it’s employees that freely choose to associate?
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@vazub@mastodon.online 2024-10-26 11:49
@LaF0rge Should you as a German resident have been excluded from contributing to some tech project developed by the Allies, if it were 1942 now? Or vice versa, having some American resident excluded from his contribution to developing, e.g. Enigma machine, used by Germans? How about contributions from a murderer, ReiserFS anyone? It is not about someone’s past, the war is raging right now, for fucks sake! If morals mean nothing to you, at least consider security.
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@jejb@mastodon.online 2024-10-28 01:58
@LaF0rge the problem with your analysis is that while we may understand how a community works, the Treasury (sanctions enforcer) doesn't. It operates on the assumption that employees always act at the direction of their employer, and that every organization behaves like a corporation.
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@szbalint@x0r.be 2024-10-29 06:52
@LaF0rge @bagder Sanctions enforcement is not a joke, and there is a reason even chinese banks comply with cutting russians off. Going with your analogy, if hypothetically a non-NATO member Germany would start a war and others would sanction Germany, you as a german developer would rightly get removed from kernel maintainers lists. This is how sanctions work. I can’t believe this is controversial, programmers are attempting international law and failing again.
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@proactiveservices@fosstodon.org 2024-10-29 06:59
@LaF0rge What I also find bizarre is that file is effectively a public record and recognition for efforts provided. How could a legal sanction prohibit such a statement? It's effectively a statement of fact. Can a sanction go as far as to simply erase a person's bona-fide contribution to something?
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@chuang@ipv6.social 2024-10-29 08:49
@LaF0rge imagine a Russian transgender refugee rejected by western countries because of sanctions against Putin
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@Merovius@chaos.social 2024-10-29 19:04
@LaF0rge I know little about the situation, but as a German: Yes. If it's 1942 and you found someone working at Thyssen or something contributing to the Linux kernel, you should absolutely kick them out. Some of our current problems are due to Nazis not getting kicked out vehemently enough after the war. The naivete of your comparisons makes me a bit angry TBQH. Russia is actively fighting an unjust war today - including in the information sphere. Germany hasn't been doing that for 80 years.