Post #48572

2025-12-10 11:17 UTC

I’m aware that in many cases the answer is simply, “they don’t,” as many people don’t seem to have the historical or theoretical curiosity to investigate it. However, I genuinely want to encourage more cerebral discussion around here, so I’ll give a brief rundown. The Second International was a big federation of socialists/social democrats with lots of different perspectives, the largest being Germany’s SDP (which still exists today). The aim was to foster international cooperation and solidarity, and to promote the interests of the common people, including preventing the outbreak of a major European war. The Basel Manifesto, passed by a unanimous vote at the International Socialist Congress in 1912, stated: If a war threatens to break out, it is the duty of the working classes and their parliamentary representatives in the countries involved supported by the coordinating activity of the International Socialist Bureau to exert every effort in order to prevent the outbreak of war by the means they consider most effective, which naturally vary according to the sharpening of the class struggle and the sharpening of the general political situation. In case war should break out anyway it is their duty to intervene in favor of its speedy termination and with all their powers to utilize the economic and political crisis created by the war to arouse the people and thereby to hasten the downfall of capitalist class rule. The Second International fell apart when the SDP voted in favor of issuing war credits, indicating support for German entry into WWI, with other social democratic parties following suit. This made any hope of international cooperation impossible. Although everyone said that they opposed the war in principle, they all found reasons to rally around their respective flags and point fingers at each other for who’s side was more responsible. Lenin was an exception to this trend and not only strongly opposed Russian participation in the war, but even went so far as to explictly call for Russia’s defeat. The Leninist perspective is that the social democratic parties betrayed the international socialist movement and failed to oppose the war because had become filled with opportunists, people who were willing to go against the interests of the people out of fear of political persecution (or, in the interest of advancing their own careers) and that, from this, we can see that attempts to work within the system to achieve reform are vulnerable such mechanisms of subversion. The breakdown of the Second International was not just a disagreement between social democrats and Leninists, but also between social democrats of different countries. When their respective countries turned against each other, and the range of acceptable opinions narrowed to the point that opposing the war would be seen as treasonous, they all found reasons to start fighting each other, in a largely pointless war on an unprecedented scale. Is it really possible to build any sort of international coalition if a party limits itself to the range of opinions that are permissible within a capitalist system? And are modern social democrats even interested in that sort of internationalism anymore?

Replies (1)

@antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml 2025-12-10 14:38

Any serious Marxist of course values the international perspective as it is a fundamental part of the emancipation of all members of the working class. We cannot achieve a communist future without doing full and complete global revolution. Is an international coalition possible within the constraints of capital today? Personally I want to optimistically say yes because we’ve seen international solidarity change the winds on issues like Gaza in the advent of our more connected world that I think few of our intellectual predecessors could have ever expected or imagined. We still have a fucking lot of work ahead of us though. Compare the power and vitality of socialist movements across the world during the Second International and to see what I mean. In the lead up to WW1 socialism was a real tangible movement with real power and influence the likes of which no one in the modern western world has ever seen. We need to get back to that and it’s going to take time still unfortunately. I am of the mind that we should follow the examples Lenin has left for us and we must necessarily engage with the structures around us that exist today to proliferate our message to as many minds as possible. Even the structures that we as socialists rightfully declare as vestiges of capital, as long as the masses engage with them and believe in their validity we just engage with them as well. It is our job to inculcate them to the evils of capital (of which many are already tuned into on some innate level to begin with…many just need a push in the right direction to get their political development kick started) and to show them that our struggle for freedom anywhere is inexorably tied to our struggle for freedom everywhere. From an electoral position, since we must necessarily engage with electoral and parliamentary structures to push our message and ideas and to be part of the conversation of governance, the emphasis on principled and accountable electeds becomes a prime concern. We must ensure we have electeds who are true representatives of the movement and who are ideologically committed to holding and maintaining a party line. We cannot have electeds falling to the whims of empire and capital and we must ensure these electeds convene and collaborate with the masses to ensure they are subject to the tribunes of the people. From a western perspective there must also be a considerable emphasis on decolonization to support international cooperation and freedom. Western powers exist as imperial holdings and the inherent hierarchy this creates as powerful nations subjugate weaker ones for their own gain must be done away with wholesale. Constitutions must be redrawn to ensure true democratic participation of the members of society such that everyone is given true agency and influence over their lives and the issues that affect them. Minorities must be afforded reparations for the systematic subjugation they have been subject to and we must work to ensure these structures can never manifest again. Undemocratic structures of governance (like the Senate in the US for instance) must abolished completely. There’s definitely more to say here and I probably would be smart to revise some of this (maybe later) but I gotta get to work lol I’ve only been doing real theory analysis with local comrades recently and while its been incredibly educational I definitely am still learning!

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