Post #3863820

2026-07-16 15:48 UTC

@frankps@mastodon.babb.no And if you continue reading, it outlines the United States too. I'm an American. I can create a business and claim that business is Japanese. But if our offices are in the USA, our servers, and employees are in the USA, despite registering it in Japan, that business would still be subject to U.S. juristiction. I wish they covered business law and international law in public schools. I think just an outline would benefit many people. @jon@social.vivaldi.net

Replies (2)

@frankps@mastodon.babb.no 2026-07-16 17:13

@NetscapeNavigator@social.vivaldi.net @jon@social.vivaldi.net Well, you are fucked in all kinds of ways. Thanks for supporting European tech, but as we know, privacy is not for Americans. The rest of us keep fighting... Sorry!

Open ##3863819
@dazo@infosec.exchange 2026-07-17 22:48

@NetscapeNavigator@social.vivaldi.net @frankps@mastodon.babb.no @jon@social.vivaldi.net In plain English, explained by Lumo Here's what that clause means in plain English: Where disputes get resolved If you live in the U.S. and use this service: In Switzerland: Any lawsuits filed there must use Swiss law and be handled by courts in Geneva. In the U.S.: Any lawsuits filed there use the laws of whatever U.S. state you live in. What this covers This applies to basically any dispute related to the Terms of Service or your account—including: • Contract issues • Warranty claims • Tort claims (like negligence) • Violations of laws or regulations • Communications with the company Basically, any legal disagreement connected to using their service falls under this rule. Arbitration If the dispute goes to arbitration (instead of court), it follows: • The U.S. Federal Arbitration Act • American Arbitration Association's Consumer Rules • Electronic documents Digital versions of the Terms and notices count as valid evidence in court just like paper documents would. Why this matters for you This means you could potentially face litigation in Switzerland, but if a case is heard in the U.S., local state laws apply. It's a common clause in international companies' terms—they try to preserve some control over how disputes are handled while acknowledging they can't force U.S. residents into foreign courts beyond what U.S. law allows. ChatGPT concluded quite similar, but added this clarification: What this means in practice The company is trying to cover multiple situations: • Swiss courts + Swiss law if a case is brought in Switzerland. • U.S. courts + your state's law if a case is properly brought in the United States. • U.S. arbitration rules if the dispute is subject to arbitration. The first sentence doesn't necessarily mean every dispute must be heard in Switzerland. It says you consent to the jurisdiction of Geneva's courts, meaning you agree those courts are an acceptable place to hear disputes. The later language also recognizes that some disputes may proceed in U.S. courts if those courts have jurisdiction. So, despite the company being based in Switzerland, a U.S. consumer may still be able to bring certain claims in the U.S., depending on the nature of the dispute, the rest of the agreement (especially the arbitration clause), and applicable law. The key part to review is the referenced Section 13.1, because if it requires binding arbitration, that may prevent either side from filing most lawsuits in court except in limited circumstances.

Open ##3897199