Post #3240359

2026-02-27 19:25 UTC

If you're wondering what sort of #accessibility issues I mean when I say "papercuts," here are some examples: First-letter navigation not working in commonly used parts of the Windows 11 UI, like "open with" dialogs and the system tray. NVDA's browse mode suddenly becoming inactive and inoperable when transitioning between webpages. Multi-line textareas being reported as "blank" in Chrome and Chromium-based apps. Focus moving to the message list instead of the next or previous email when deleting content in Thunderbird. These are things that can and should be fixed. But if or when they are, it'll be easy to write up another list of small, non-blocking issues that but nevertheless contribute to a frustrating, unproductive experience.

Replies (5)

@pitermach@dragonscave.space 2026-02-27 19:58

@jscholes@dragonscave.space Yeah, totally all this. Thanks for reminding me I need to try explorer patcher on my win 11 box to get first letter navigation back in the system tray. As an aside I keep seeing people say Windows is more efficient to navigate than MacOS because of not requiring interaction and having more keyboard shortcuts. Which I think is true... In older Windows apps, back when MS and other developers cared about this more. Having a menu bar with shortcuts which gave apps a good hierarchy, and having working first letter nav does a lot. But then you have all the modern apps, where you have none of this. So your only option is to tab, maybe 10, 20 times to find the thing you need. Good example of this is the Windows 11 settings app which also has collapsable section buttons that you have to expand for added keystrokes. Because VoiceOver was designed for an OS that really sucked at keyboard navigation, it has tools to deal with shit like this. Windows screen readers are way nmore passive about navigation because Windows was historically way better at this, maybe with the exception of Narrator which borrows a lot from VOiceOver. I'd kill for a screen search or a browser style nav mode for NVDA that worked everywhere and not just on the web. Oh and this is not to say modern MacOS doesn't have its own papercuts. Any app built with catalyst feels super janky with focus management and text fields sometimes read very weird. Not to mention all the other little VO things.

Open ##3240380
@simon@procrastodon.net 2026-02-27 23:30

@jscholes@dragonscave.space The problem is that no matter how small the issues are, they still take the same level of effort to report. A thousand tiny paper cuts require a thousand times the time and energy as one giant blocker. It's just constant, never-ending irritation with no energy to do anything about it.

Open ##3240383
@NikJov@mastodon.social 2026-02-28 00:10

@jscholes@dragonscave.space Yep, that. First letter navigation is the particularly annoying one for me, it's like Microsoft for some reason forgot that was ever a thing. Whenever I hear that a part of Windows 11 is going to be redesigned I immediately go, oh great, now time to figure out which accessibility bugs we'll have to deal with and which conventions that worked for years no longer will.

Open ##3240384
@jcsteh@aus.social 2026-02-28 10:23

@jscholes@dragonscave.space Not at all to detract from your point because I totally agree, but I (and the rest of the Firefox accessibility team) are at least trying our best to not allow Firefox to be a part of that trend. To that end, are you seeing the browse mode transition bug you mentioned with Firefox? I haven't seen it or heard of it, which is why I'm asking. I can't help with Thunderbird unfortunately; very different part of the organisation where I have no involvement or influence.

Open ##3240386
@modulux@node.isonomia.net 2026-02-28 10:37

@jscholes@dragonscave.space I reported that Thunderbird issue a few days ago, I was a bit concerned it was just me. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2019407

Open ##3240393