Post #3004462

2025-09-08 16:44 UTC

Final update (hopefully): The council makes a statement, changes the moderation guidelines. First I'll cover the code of conduct changes, which I suggest you give a read yourself: https://web.archive.org/web/20250908155110/https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/code-of-conduct-enforcement-process/59844 All in all this a very good change. I don't think I could've written better rules myself. I've said that I don't think marginalized groups and bigots can coexist when treated as two equal sides. I do, however, think that we can coexist in a world where they work along side us, as long as they are told to shut the fuck up when they start being harmful, divisive, and/or assholes. Studies show that this dynamic when we all interact, just as normal people, without someone being yelled at for being themselves, is the best way to make a more tolerant world. I feel that these rules perfectly accomplish that. Of course that all assumes they are enforced fairly, and by people who aren't biased against the vales those rules represent, which brings me to the response itself: https://web.archive.org/web/20250908151805/https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/on-discourse-rules-about-politics/66986 If you give the benefit of the doubt, it casts a new light on why the initial action was taken: due to generational gap, the mod saw it as a sexualized slur. Unfortunately that was a very small part of the criticisms; and the fact that two other mods chimed in, with responses that I've argued were both clearly not a mistake, and extremely ideologically charged; means that this response wasn't as perfect as the rule changes. I don't think that necessarily makes it bad mind you, but it does mean that the team will have it's work cut out for them making sure the people enforcing their rules aren't biased against said rules. Lets all remember what happened with Hyprland after the drama: they added rules about discrimination, but the leader of the project still agreed that it's ok to ban people for having pronouns in username. Even a really good set of rules are still no better than the people enforcing them.

Replies (2)

@gimmechocolate@bark.lgbt 2025-09-08 17:07

True conclusion: All in all I think at this point, I think the community finally has good rules in place to protect marginalized people, but I also think it's important to test the waters still. Just because the rules are there, doesn't mean that they will be enforced fairly. I do still have my doubts that the mods I called out in posts 2-4, will be able to enforce the rules fairly, and keep their personal biases out of their decisions as moderators of the community, especially since they managed to turn what could've been a simple misunderstanding, into a massive political shitshow. If I were them, I'd be resigning right now, and if I were their peers, I'd be super pissed off, and kindly suggesting they resign right now. (to be clear this is only the two who responded, and that I called out, specifically NOT wild_man who initially did the action. I think it'd be good to take the council's word that at least this was a genuine misunderstanding. I do genuinely believe them here myself.) Now that this seems to be wrapping up, lets all remember that the actions we take should focus on making the world a better place. I think everyone involved can still be a productive member of the community, even if they shouldn't be the ones enforcing the rules. I also think it should be important to treat each other with kindness by default, it's rare that unkindness makes the world better. I hope the community council continues down this path, and makes sure the rules are actually enforced as intended. I also recognize that while a few days is an eternity in internet time, it's just a short moment in bureaucracy time, so I appreciate the council coming together on such short notice to make an overall good decision. If they don't, I will do my best to add one last update. I thank everyone for their time, and remember: everyone should have freedom, and the right to be themselves. I hope you all have a great day!!!

Open ##3004463
@apophis@kill-corporations.enterprises 2025-09-08 23:23

@gimmechocolate@bark.lgbt > due to generational gap, the mod saw it as a sexualized slur gen z: identity, maybe a bigoted slur if someone's drunk the kool-aid gen y: identity gen x: identity, maybe a bigoted slur boomers: identity or bigoted slur silent: means "strange" or "unusual" this excuse makes no sense

Open ##3004511