Post #2809296
2024-08-27 18:50 UTC
Replies (14)
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@emjonaitis@mathstodon.xyz 2024-08-27 19:03
@kissane@mas.to There’s a volume aspect to this too. I suspect I’m considerably more norm-core than the archetypal Mastodon user (along most axes but not all) — but because I don’t have a big account, this stuff just doesn’t come up for me. Might be worth doing a qualitative study of pain points identified by big users of various platforms/whatever-we-call-them, and what those say about the culture. (Possibly this is already out there. Possibly you are even the person who would have written it… I’m out of my depth here) The median user of any service probably just isn’t going to experience the same things.
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@sara@xoxo.zone 2024-08-27 19:09
@kissane@mas.to I feel this hard, “purity culture” leading to subtraction (of self, of participation, of consideration, of ideas) and that we should be about growth, care, protection, revival. That purity is a test one is trying to measure up to, to force oneself (and others) into quantifiable boxes; chasing purity in all angles is not aligned with the messiness of human grown and maybe its allure is that it promises certainty? A way to KNOW we are safe (by whatever metric we measure that).
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@fifilamoura@eldritch.cafe 2024-08-27 19:16
@kissane@mas.to I think there are a couple of things... Firstly, purity tests are an aspect of fascism, they're all about the individual subsuming and sacrificing themselves to an ideology or belief (usually that of the believer so it's making the other person subordinate and using the ideology as the lever to do so). It's not a coincidence that people who are judging others on these purist standards also see themselves as martyrs (and greatly underappreciated for their greatness). None of this is reasonable nor does it leave room for people to be human and imperfect. (We're all human and imperfect, even the people who believe themselves above all this.)
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@elana@babka.social 2024-08-27 19:22
@kissane@mas.to I just want to say that I think you're doing great, I admire you a lot, and the person I saw who was engaging in all that finger-wagging at you seemed to be clearly working out his life frustrations in entirely the wrong direction. I think you're wonderful and I'm sorry you're taking such undeserved heat when you're clearly doing your very best, for yourself and for everyone 🫶
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@danaloi@newsie.social 2024-08-27 19:42
@kissane@mas.to This reminds me of the Bloom County strip where Opus tries not to harm even one blade of grass... we all can do what we can, within reason; and dissuade others from doing the worst - scolding one another doesn't really help.
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@imklg@faf.social 2024-08-27 20:05
@kissane@mas.to I love to ignore and block the #PurityTrolls and #SanitySealions. Not much else can be done. They’re not here to have a nice talk.
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@Voline@kolektiva.social 2024-08-27 20:08
@kissane@mas.to This may be the Mastodon subcultural instance (ha!) of a more general phenomena of people being over-the-top intolerant on the internet. Interesting that you should say this just after I read this piece from yesterday by the amazing columnist for the Irish Times, Laura Kennedy. She was talking about the brigading of a couple girls doing a TikTok dance video. "Online, things are different. We lose that rational sense of our own irrelevance and we can become thoughtless, credulous babies, quicker to judge and rage and dismiss.” https://archive.ph/LyzJH
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@robcee@fosstodon.org 2024-08-27 20:33
@kissane@mas.to the problem with zealots... You can’t let ‘em get to you. If you post online, you’re opening yourself up to attack. It’s a fun thought experiment tho. You either silo yourself with other like-minded people and defederate, or stay open and exposed. Maybe there’s a balance, maybe there are better controls we could implement. I’m not sure anyone’s really treating the “fediverse” as a “product” outside of Meta. It’s all individual instances and client software. people are messy.
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@rood@aus.social 2024-08-27 20:42
@kissane@mas.to kicking the can down the road to a solution - here's my 2¢: As a regular vegan you learn to moderate expectations. Same again as a regular Linux user. Then there's regular cycling, sailing, hiking, gardening, eco-living, … Eventually self preservation kicks in because a fully fledged extremist can establish a hate group with ease. And a hater can nitpick over the most mundane problems. A modicum of reality becomes a life vest in a sea of perfectionism. If nobody I know picks up a better way of living through me, then why would I strain myself to be the nth level guru? I'm not seen as a role model in any of my departures from the norm. I get happy to normalise until further notice. Yet, I work my butt off within the establishment of a better way.
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@iwein@mas.to 2024-08-28 05:05
@kissane@mas.to that resonates. I had multiple people here tell me to kill myself for having a slightly different opinion. Eventually I found out it is best to stay silent, or block, instead of grappling with issues publicly. I guess a significant portion of humans are just jerks, and even if you can learn something from them to improve yourself, it's not worth the psychological damage. After introducing some very serious filtering habits, I feel exposed to mostly awesome people I even share with.
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@spudicus@techhub.social 2024-08-28 05:38
@kissane@mas.to I try to live by the aphorism, love people and use things. I think this can be applied to ideas or dogmas as well. When a dogmatic belief is seen as more important than another’s basic humanity we have othered them. I think that is when purity culture truly goes off the rails and moves from annoying to dangerous. That doesn’t mean that we don’t call out harmful behavior, stand up for the oppressed or have boundaries as individuals or groups. This can bump up against the paradox of tolerance. It’s not unreasonable to oppose someone who questions someone else’s right to exist. However, I think we have to be mindful of our tendency toward tribalism.
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@twobiscuits@graz.social 2024-08-28 13:03
@kissane@mas.to parallels to holiness movements of yore may exist. i don't mind ppl being pure too much. either they will ease off after a while, bc they realize they can't actually keep up being 100% holy for very long, & quietly begin to accept not being that, or they become hardened fundies. in the latter stage of development they are easy enough to identify & block. otherwise they are just ppl who care about stuff, and that's not bad.
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@paelse@mastodon.online 2024-09-01 12:35
@kissane@mas.to Like the man said - you need to love your enemies and forgive those who transgress against you. (And remember, you don't do it to make them feel better - you do it to rid yourself of carrying the poisonous burden of grudges)
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@hallenbeck@mastodon.social 2024-09-04 23:50
@kissane@mas.to Sort of tangentially related - have you ever come across Mark O'Connell's documentary about ambivalence? It's good. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0007k73 The supporting web page is good too, and has a thing about Dr Monica Gagliano's pea experiment, which is extraordinary. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/wBm3GwsRd8l9p4qDB4Hvq9/why-it-s-strong-to-be-ambivalent