Post #2478168

2026-04-23 21:04 UTC

@hipsterelectron@circumstances.run @mollyim@fosstodon.org very interesting ideas :D instant messaging protocols have been a special interest of mine for a long time now. i've mostly done deep dives in how xmpp, matrix, deltachat and simplex work. i used to develop xmpp software in a previous life from all of my flip-flopping on what i think the best model is, i have settled on that i think the point-to-point model is likely best for dms and small groups. keep the server as dumb as possible. in small groups where the participants trust one-another, the threat model does not need to be very paranoid towards whoever is in it (but does for attackers outside of it, ofc) for bigger spaces, i like what xmpp muc and irc do, where one server is the focal point of the room and coordinates everything. i do like xmpp a bit more here as the server you are on kinda acts like a bouncer ended up just rambling a bit, eheh :3 a general purpose overlay network would also be very nice

Replies (2)

@hipsterelectron@circumstances.run 2026-04-23 21:41

@lumi@snug.moe that's not rambling i now understand your earlier posts better. i think it would be good to gauge what interest molly might have in the fully p2p approach at some point but probably to consider it a distinct proposal from this work for the time being. i am extremely serious about following up on this but i am also kind of insane so can't guarantee i can effectively collaborate. it might be good to chat more on the point to point approach bc i have a pretty specific idea about that and it seems like it's compatible with your specific idea here

Open ##2478169
@lispi314@udongein.xyz 2026-04-23 22:37

@lumi@snug.moe @hipsterelectron@circumstances.run @mollyim@fosstodon.org > in small groups where the participants trust one-another, the threat model does not need to be very paranoid towards whoever is in it (but does for attackers outside of it, ofc) That provides less ambient trust and less insecurity than options that rely on more complex group keying. Dropping a member is a single step operation. Coordinating the drop would be necessary for "group" kick, but group keying is for efficiency and tradeoffs are made as a result.

Open ##2478171