Elektrine lite

← Feed

@scruiser@awful.systems

Post #2293545

2026-05-09 16:57 UTC

Theoretically if the people responsible for that training and reinforcement did their jobs well then those patterns should only include true statements but if it was that easy then you wouldn’t have [insert the entire intellectual history of the human species]. I’m chiming in to agree with Architeuthis and mention a citation explaining more. LLMs have a hard minimum rate of hallucinations based on the rate of “monofacts” in their training data (arxiv.org/html/2502.08666v1). Basically, facts that appear independently and only once in the training data cause the LLM to “learn” that you can have a certain rate of disconnected “facts” that appear nowhere else, and cause it to in turn generate output similar to that, which in practice is basically random and thus basically guaranteed to be false. And as Architeuthis says, the ability of LLMs to “generalize” basically means they compose true information together in ways that is sometimes false. So to the extent you want your LLM to ever “generalize”, you also get an unavoidable minimum of hallucinations that way. So yeah, even given an even more absurdly big training data source that was also magically perfectly curated you wouldn’t be able to iron out the intrinsic flaws of LLMs.

Replies (1)

  • Thank you! Let me wildly oversimplify and make sure I understand. The fundamental problem is that if you train on a set that includes multiple independent facts, the generative aspect of the model - the ability to generate new text that is statistically consistent with the training data - requires remixing and combining tokens in a way that will inevitably result in factual errors. Like, if your training data includes “all men are mortal” and “all lions are cats” then in order to generate new text it has to be “loose” enough to output “all men are cats”. Feedback and reinforcement can adjust the probabilities to a degree, but because the model is fundamentally about token probabilities and doesn’t have any other way of accounting for whether a statement is actually true, there’s no way to completely remove it. You can reinforce that “all cats are mortal” is a better answer, but you can’t train it that “all men are cats” is invalid.

    Open ##2300718