Post #2014375
2026-05-01 20:28 UTC
Replies (2)
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@James_Dixon@poa.st 2026-05-01 21:37
> But what does he mean by born of above? Then or now? The answers are slightly different. Then he meant being able to recognize him as the Son of God and confessing same. See Matthew 16:17 where he tells Peter "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven", indicating that only those inspired by God (from above) could do so. Now (since the Pentecost) it means both the former and the baptism by the Holy Ghost. The indwelling of the Holy Ghost when you are baptized by same makes you "from above". That's something even the evangelical Protestant denominations get right. Baptism by water is a mere symbolism of this actual baptism.
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@Ash_Kvetchum@nicecrew.digital 2026-05-02 16:47
The other guy commenting is saying you have to be born again without using the words, huh? 😩 I know I'm about to speedrun a lot, but it's a big book. >born of above Christ clarifies to Nicodemus, after Nicodemus thinks that one must have some kind of next/second birth, that He is saying that to be able to see the reign of God, seeing that "God is with Christ," as Nicodemus said, one must be born "of water and of Spirit; what is flesh is flesh, what is Spirit is Spirit." Again for emphasis: This is to see the reign of God in Christ as Nicodemus *is* seeing, not a future thing to do. (I'll explain it in a second. I'll first go over what other's will swear first.) People confuse this with baptism (water) and the Holy Spirit (Spirit) because, like Nicodemus, they're zeroed in on a future seeing of the reign of God when Christ is telling Nicodemus the reason Nicodemus can and *is seeing* the reign of God, that Christ is of God, in response to Nicodemus having just confessed to Christ that he believes God is with Christ. Christ, who has not yet died nor been resurrected, is not telling Nicodemus to accept a Spirit nor to get baptized. He is not pivoting to a topic about seeing some other event. He is telling Nicodemus that Niceodemus can see what Nicodemus just confessed to seeing because Nicodemus *was born of the water and of the Spirit.* >water and Spirit There are numerous verses in scripture referring to the flesh as water. One example is when it is said Christ came by the water (the flesh) but not just the water but also by the blood (not just as any descendant, but one under the law (the blood), as an Israelite). God gave to Adam His Spirit. Those descended from Adam (by the flesh a.k.a. water) are descendants of that Spirit. This is true and important as it is *how* Christ coming in the flesh and His resurrection saves us. It was important that Christ be not born of an earthly father, but be "a second Adam" in that, like Adam, He wouldn't be under Adam by the Spirit as we all are, for having him as our earthly father. Christ is God, and so Christ is Adam's father by the Spirit. Through Christ were all things made. Starting with Adam and then passing on by the first-born/eldest son of Adam and on was the position of priest between the descendants of Adam and God. This is the procession (or "the order" as in 1 then 2 then 3) of the position of "righteous king" (or "Melchizedek", as the title means in Hebrew). As a father (who was once the eldest/first-born of his father) would die, the position would pass to his own eldest living son (or the eldest living son of his eldest should that eldest be deceased). This is why scripture calls Noah "the eighth preacher of righteousness." The "Melchizedek" king in Genesis that Abraham gives tithes to is of this procession. Christ is our priest "after the order of Melchizedek" (meaning, "according to the procession of the righteous king") because Christ is of Adam by the flesh (and so enters into that procession) and yet *is God*, the one from whom Adam received his Spirit (and so from whom we have received our Spirit). This means, of those in the flesh, Christ is the eldest by the Spirit of any Son of Man. Christ is our second Adam. Though we are still of Adam, we--even Adam--are "in Christ" by His Spirit. We will be found righteous because even Adam, by the Spirit given to him, is of Christ/in Christ--and so are all of we, descended of Adam. When we are resurrected, it will not be by the flesh but by the Spirit, as scripture says, for this reason. We will then receive new bodies, as Paul writes. Christians struggle that not everyone is from Adam, though scripture takes the time to list his descendants. (You'll notice these are of one race. And you can follow who these become. They're White. People bristle and whine and scold, swearing there is one spiritual race whose members will be judged by the content of their character.) They struggle that our salvation is truly by grace, without our doing, does not need completed ("You need to accept xyz", "You need to do abc"), cannot be prevented (even by ourselves), is not going to be a reflection of how wise or good or humble we were (any stipulation of "I accept xyz" would be these, huh?), and is separate from our reward (our judgment). Our salvation is by grace. Our reward is based upon how we, His sheep, treated the least of His sheep. We are to love the one near us. We are to love our kind--and not be the Whore of Babylon, sitting "on many waters, which are many nations." (We will be found to be this, and by grace saved despite ourselves.)