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@ncf@types.pl

Post #1487035

2026-04-18 19:59 UTC

Constructive order theory puzzle! Prove that every strong total order is decidable (and conversely every decidable total order is strong), with the following definitions: A partial order is a binary relation that is reflexive, transitive and antisymmetric.A total order is a partial order in which ∀ x y. ∥ (x ≤ y) + (y ≤ x) ∥.A strong total order is a partial order in which ∥ ∀ x y. (x ≤ y) + (y ≤ x) ∥ (hence a total order).An order is decidable if ∀ x y. (x ≤ y) + ¬(x ≤ y).

Replies (5)

  • @ncf@types.pl 2026-04-19 14:02

    (The solution is now here: https://1lab.dev/Order.Total.html#as-discrete-total-orders)

    Open ##2061445

  • @jeanas@mathstodon.xyz 2026-04-18 20:07

    @ncf By “relation”, do you mean a mere relation or a proof-relevant relation?

    Open ##2061446

  • @mei@donotsta.re 2026-04-18 23:12

    @ncf this feels... extremely unintuitive. like, there's no data to go off! everything's truncated! (assuming the type that's being related in a set, i guess) how can you ever construct anything that's not a proposition out of this?

    Open ##2061448

  • @hallasurvivor@sunny.garden 2026-04-19 17:31

    @ncf Thanks for the puzzle and the solution!! That's REALLY clever, and I don't think I've seen the trick before. Perfectly sized to think about over a late breakfast 💖

    Open ##2061452

  • @jac@types.pl 2026-04-19 18:44

    @ncf I assume by relation you mean prop-valued. In that case decidability is effectively a prop (even without extensionality we can factor through its truncation) strong total => decidable: so eliminate the truncation and we have inputs x y, and a function `d: ∀ x y. (x ≤ y) + (y ≤ x)`. We play this function against itself: consider d x y, and d y x. If the first returns the left branch or the latter returns the right, we're done by picking x ≤ y. But otherwise we have y ≤ x, in which case given x ≤ y we have x = x, and hence the two functions must have agreed, and hence we have a contradiction strong total <= decidable: Given a decision d, and any inputs x y, let's prove x ≤ y + y ≤ x, Consider d x y, d y x. If Either returns their first input, we are done. But if both return the negation, we have a contradiction using totality, hence we have handled all cases.

    Open ##2061453